€116m debt for Cork council - 800 affordable homes lie empty


In the print version it said something to the effect that between 2005 and 2008 the council bought these homes from developers at 30-50% below market value and that now with the crash has occurred just 10% of them are worth less than they paid.

Now aren’t Cork developers are a big shower of softies to be giving away houses to the council for the affordable housing scheme for half their market value!


3 bed €95k on the open market daft.ie/1339144


Many of the houses in North Cork are now gone POA, or not quoting a price. Wonder how many Auctioneers/Developers are on the local council :imp:

Councils with these properties on the books was an early NAMA attempt, in my opinion. They never made any financial or social sense, but were an easy way to allow local developers who are frequently on local councils or have close connections to them for rezoning out of paying back the debt.

seems like the council are selling some of them off now… these look like market clearing prices to me… e.g. 200k for a 3 bed in Douglas for example…although i imagine there are some caveats like smaller sq footage, cheaper finishes or no kitchens etc…getting in before potential nama sales ?

daft indicates that these are entered in the last 2 days…someone else can count the units…i’m tired from pastin’ shortcodes… :slight_smile:


actually this search on cork coco as agent is a better URL as it will be updated as more properties are added… and as i type i see i missed a couple from the list above… there are 26 ads found by the search…

No it’s a simple continuation of the Irish government’s bizarre economic and social policy.

If you work for a living then you’re expected to pay the full cost of most things e.g. health, “voluntary” school fees, housing, council charges etc.

If not then you exist in a state protected bubble where all these things are paid for you or on your behalf.

The “affordable” housing scheme works in the same vein - you can’t afford property ergo the state subsidises it for you. That keeps people on lower incomes happy while people on mid to high incomes bear the full cost of the market.

Sure it doesn’t make a lick of sense but it’s reasonably consistent with all the other policies that don’t make sense.

+1. Builders couldn’t flog houses in 2008 and lo and behold they were given over to S&A housing.

People in the affordable housing schemes in Ireland are paying mortgages which would service the repayments on better houses in better locations in other Western European countries.
In the last few years mortgages of 250,000 through the Affordable Housing Scheme were being given out for basic apartments, duplexes and 900sq ft. terraced houses.
It is unfair to present people who bought affordable housing as lucky recipients of Fianna Fail’s “generosity”.

Just visited a friend in Dublin over the weekend who paid 260K 3 years ago under the AHS, similar unit now on the open market for €169k

People obtained property they wouldn’t have been able to otherwise in the Irish market with the cost borne by the taxpayer and the purchasers of other properties in the same development. I’m simply describing how the system works and how it’s consistent with government policies in other areas.

The people on rent allowance “should” be able to rent something a lot nicer and for less too but it’s a bit useless to compare to markets in other countries when people without government assistance are paying the full cost here.

I’m not saying people on the affordable scheme acquired some sort of net benefit relative to an imaginary Irish property market that’s well managed but they certainly acquired a relative benefit, one not enjoyed by people who don’t qualify for the scheme.

Generally I have less of a problem with the affordable housing scheme then I do with other government policies concerning property (which is possibly more a reflection of how awful policy is in this area). I’d cheerfully buy in a development with affordable housing provision, not so with other schemes (e.g. social housing).

The “benefit” was enjoyed by everyone with an income.
The Housing Department were so desperate to shift these properties they were giving out 35 year mortgages on houses to any one who expressed the slightest interest and was in paid employment.
The upper earning bands were pushed higher and higher to include dual income earners on very very good wages.
The only people not eligible for these dwellings were not in receipt of a wage and they aren’t on the demand curve for open market houses either so they lost out on nothing.
The buyers in the AH scheme generally weren’t competing with open market buyers for dwellings in a newly released estate.
They AH buyers were being directed toward the least attractive properties in the estates or in other less attractive estates the developer provided to the housing department to satisfy their Part V obligations. If there was a Part V obligation on an estate in Castleknock then the AH buyers find themselves offered houses in Mulhuddart.

As the scheme was available to near all FTBs the only reason the AH scheme didn’t have a greater impact on the open market was that the open market was populated mainly by speculators and the houses offered through AH weren’t a satisfactory substitute to open market properties due to their low quality.

It was like selling crack to people who actually wanted cocaine…

That’s not fair either.
These were ordinary people/couples who just wanted some security of tenure or wanted to start a family. No speculation element to their purchasing decision as it isn’t easy to turn a profit on an affordable housing purchase.
A couple in their mid twenties in 1997 looking to start a family would be rapidly approaching their forties now. Putting your life on indefinite hold isn’t an option.
You can only rent in an uncontrolled rent market like we experienced since 1997 for so long.

By the peak of the bubble sure.

Of course they were. The discounts applied to AF properties were paid for by people buying at full market rates. In the usual perversion that is Irish policy they had to both pay in the form of higher prices and have their taxes used for the council part of the deal.

I wasn’t really referring to speculation but the preternatural desire to own and the easy acquiescence to the old “rent is dead money” mantra, the psychotropic death grip that these people’s friends and families exerted upon them in the collective mindfuck of confirmation bias as we sold stones to each other in the grandest of pyramid schemes.

It was drug addled compulsive behaviour looking for a fix wherever you could get it…

Knowing what we know now it is obvious that the “discount” wasn’t being payed by people buying at full market rates. People buying at full market rate were paying whatever the developer thought they could squeeze out of them. No charity there.
300,000 empty houses and house kept being built without buyers. These less desirable houses being sold in to AH would have been left unoccupied and as it turns out many of them were left un-occuppied anyhow.
The AH apartments in places like Ladyswell(easily worst location in D15 and that is saying something) have been hanging around a very very long time unsold. They are only being reported on in the newspapers now.

You seem to think that was the only motivator to purchase a house.
Lack of Security of Tenure was a main driver of the market for property.
When you are planning to start a family and have experienced being thrown out of your rented dwelling at short notice a number of times before in the preceeding few years then you have a very good motivator to achieve security of tenure.
When you have had experience of rental inflation as were experienced during the late '90s and early '00s then you have another motivator.
In Ireland the only way to control outgoings for shelter and gain security of tenure was to purchase a property.

There were unthinking fools out there who bought in to the collective mania(s) but there were also people making reasoned decisions and choices from the few unpalettable options that were presented to them.

The absence of any serious movement for development of proper tenancy rights and laws reveals the real motivation which is as I identified earlier.

However, once bitten we may be twice shy… Time will tell…

Once again you are blaming the people.
Faced with the unholy triumverate of Ahern, Harney and McCreevy who made it clear that the market would decide while stacking everything in favour of those who already hold property meant that the only way to cope was to “get out of the market” for once and for all by buying a home.

Honestly, the way you post gives the impression that you believe that we are in a functioning democracy where people actually have a choice but choose not to exercise it.
FF have been controlling the Country without majority support for most of the last 75 years.

We are within a paradigm, people had / have the ability to change it.