34 North Frederick Street eviction.


#41

The latest target in Belvedere Place has planning permission granted in June for a refurb / besdsits to apartments.

Pity these lads don’t have a trade


#42

When I say anarchy I don’t really mean people taking up arms against the state, more that a creeping disregard for the laws of land gains a widespread acceptance which can cause significant societal problems.

For example, I agree that the courts are playing political football with housing repossessions, in that they seem very reluctant to actually grant a repossession; they are continually kicking the can down the road. This is thanks to a creeping disregard, politically and socially, for contract law and is causing huge societal problems, not least a contributing factor to the housing crisis.

It’s frustrating to see, but at least when a court finally orders a repossession, by and large it is enforced, and that is a good thing.

We have to got to stage where public and political opinion is influencing the willingness of courts to enforce the law, which is a ridiculous state of affairs if you think about it.

Worse still, we’re in danger of getting the stage where it is ok to openly flout the law, if public opinion apparently supports it. That is the flavour of anarchy I am talking about.


#43

Yes there is a problem with affordable housing, but disregarding another citizens property rights is not going to fix it. Undermining one citizens property rights undermines all citizens property rights.
In this case, according to the protester the villains are the property hoarders. But, there are lots of reasons why a property can be vacant. (Problems with a will, organizing the capital required for development…etc.)
The mob often goes after the wrong suspect.

IMHO, the lefties are very muddled up in their ideology. They want a type of globalism, but then when global finances arrives on their shores they pick on the local property developers.

Also the doxing of the owner of that property was a cowardly act.


#44

FYI. There was in interesting reversal on the streets of Dublin between 1983 and 2018. Although on both occasions the Yes side canvassers / supporters greatly outnumbered the No side canvassers / supporters. Such is the vagaries of politics. What was very different between 1983 and 2018 was in 2018 the very much in the minority No canvassers were politely ignored on all occasions I saw them whereas I personally witnessed in 1983 the No canvassers of the time being verbally abused and personally threatened on several occasions on the streets in Central Dublin. One particularly nasty occasion on Kildare St comes to mind. As for removal of posters No posters may have been tampered with in 2018 but one thing I did not see in 2018 was No posters torn down and left for all to see. Which was a fairly common sight in Dublin in 1983. Thinking back I dont think I remember seeing a single No poster anywhere outside Dublin in the lead up to that referendum.

As for Frederick St, just the usual media attention whores deliberately creating high profile incidents so they can get attention and ultimately money for their own pet projects. A cynical stunt pure and simple. Got zero to do with the accommodation problem. Which Dublin has always had. Its always been an expensive place to rent, with terrible choice, low quality stock and mostly terrible landlords and essentially non existent tenants legal protection. Little has changed in the last forty odd years. Nothing new about any of this.

So some stupid media stunt will do nothing to change any of that.

Want a better functioning market with housing? Then for a start how about evicting the tens of thousands of people who defaulted on their mortgages knowing full well that the dysfunctional Irish legal system would not deal with them like in other countries. Or promptly evicting the cute hoor farmers in Meath and their ilk. Hundred of those scattered about the country. And how about a French style property tax on all empty properties. That should bring at least 80% of the 200K unused properties onto the rental / resale market. And as the planning / zoning system does not work in Ireland and never can given its political culture just abolish it completely. A simple engineering integrity / safety permitted process, nothing more. Then you will have large amounts of “affordable” housing built in short order.

But the people behind Fredrick St have no interest in any of these workable solutions because there is nothing in it for them. They are just another group of hucksters and hustlers in it for their own ends. Their own personal gain.


#45

Gene Kerrigan: When democracy wears a black mask (paywalled)
independent.ie/opinion/colu … 20494.html

…but discussed on reddit … some good points re: total wealth
reddit.com/r/ireland/commen … lack_mask/


#46

For the record and so that a link to Gene Kerrigan’s regurgitated lefty diatribes is not the last word on this, that Garda pictured above was identified on social media over the weekend apparently with the help of facial recognition software. And so ensued the personal attacks and threats against him the last few days.

I look forward to the extensive Irish Times/Gene Kerrigan etc opinion pieces and editorials on this sinister development in their coverage this week. Perhaps they may even address John Connor’s calling Gardai ‘scum’ on The Late Late Show Friday night and his extensive follow ups to that on twitter. I’ve a feeling I’ll be disappointed!


#47

Interestingly enough I was talking to an Indian guy a few weeks back re the dublin housing crisis. He said that in India when the state fails catastrophically people take things into their own hands. When there is no housing people create their own - they live in partially completed office blocks, build shanty towns - he said the Dublin equivalent would be that the Phoenix park would be a tented village, the empty office blocks on the canal would be teeming with life at night. I asked whether the police would interfere - he said only if they were in a rich persons property, the police tend not to act as their actions would show up the states incompetence.

I was thinking that could never happen here and then remembered that in the early 80’s when I was a student there were squats all over Dublin, mainly old georgian houses and basements - the popular story was that they were owned by people who’d gone to England to work and just left them intending to come back some day. Ones I remember for sure were a place off Dorset st occupied by Architecture students from Bolton St, a house in Sandymount, a rambling mansion in Dundrum that I think the builder who owned it was hoping would get burnt down as a consequence of some wild party. Most famous was the one in Leeson St - I think it’s now a hotel - it had a fancy portico and cast iron balconies and you got in by using a rope - you used to see people going in and out of there regularly.

There was a housing crisis then - in this case caused by a mass migration from rural Ireland in pursuit of civil service jobs that were offered to the children of anyone who voted FF.

I think the occupy movement is a good idea but they should just move on as soon as they get a judgement against them - by moving quickly and continually they could show the sheer number of vacant properties in this city - and by good luck (and a bit of careful investigation) they could end up in some fairly embarassing (politically, socially) properties. Once it became obvious that there was a very good chance of your vacant property being spotted I think things might move more quickly at government level. I agree that the current approach is just grandstanding by people who are after a political career rather than a proper popular rolling protest which would be sufficiently diffuse to spread the energies of the state agencies and force them to deal with smaller numbers of ‘real’ people rather than a small hardened group of people who can be easily portrayed as rabble-rousers and agitators. There are ways to do this - you just need to read your history.


#48

Garda continues to receive death threats after protest despite investigation
independent.ie/irish-news/g … 27917.html

Justice minister supports legislation to ban photographing gardaí in the course of their duties
thejournal.ie/photographing- … 3-Sep2018/

Labour’s Brendan Howlin says Take Back The City is something ‘he wouldn’t be associated with’
thejournal.ie/howlin-take-ba … 3-Sep2018/


#49

who has the facial recognition software and a searchable database to search through?

Are employees in the big tech facilitating this?


#50

Taoiseach: Protests are welcome but they ‘aren’t going to build any houses’
irishexaminer.com/breakingn … 69824.html

Varadkar rejects Sinn Féin rent-freeze proposal
irishtimes.com/news/politic … -1.3633167

Taoiseach slaps down Justice Minister on garda photo ban at protests
breakingnews.ie/ireland/tao … 69836.html


#51

Sums up my feelings exactly. I was in a past life a squatter in counter cultural London in the 80s - you moved on when you got evicted, there is always unjustifiably empty properties that folks with a bit of gumption can put to worthwhile temporary use - the most recent example in Dublin was the Barricade Inn on Parnell st- lasted about eight months and had a very positive media image.

The current campaign has lost control of the narrative and really needs someone on the ball to ‘stick to the top of the argument’ - a few surly keyboard warriors and f#ckin’ facial recognition nonsense in the Indo shouldn’t be enough to derail a well coordinated movement .I think the protestors are learning on the fly. The more the Guards rough house middle class student types the better from their point of view…


#52

Interesting memories of the early 1980’s. One problem is that is not the Dublin I remember at the time. For me that would have been late 1970’s till mid 1980’s. I knew lots of students living in shit accommodation, and working friends too, from Dun Leary to Balbriggan. Although most were in the Rathmines, Rathgar, to Phibsborough, Fairview area. The only young people I knew who did not live in nasty shitty expensive bedsits/shared flats were the very lucky few who live in family owned properties in places like Dartmouth Sq and the various mews behind Merrion Sq, Fitzwilliam Sq etc. And those who had rooms in TCD.

I dont remember running into a single person who lived in a squat in Dublin at the time. I knew quite a few who had lived in squats in London, it was almost ubiquitous at the time until the 1989 rent law reforms, and even got an invite to what sounded like one of the more colorful ones in West Berlin, but Dublin, I dont remember it being a factor at all. The reason being the legal status of anyone who tried to squat in Dublin at the time was very different from, say, London. In Dublin the owner just hired a bunch of heavies who would beat the shit out of you if you did not vacate the property immediately. No legal recourse, like in the UK. I do remember being in a few properties in Dublin at the time that might have looked like squats but in all cases at least one of the tenants had some connection or other with the owner. So there was owners consent involved, one way or another.

There were a lot of empty properties in central Dublin at the time. Pretty much all owned by property speculators / slumlords. It was a perennial story idea for all the journalist I knew, who owns these buildings, and why are they empty, etc. but as the story had been done to death none of the editors were interested. I remember a running commentary on who owned which building from a journalist friend, would have been 1982, on the walk from Parnell Sq to his flat on Mountjoy Sq, Maybe 1/4 empty, a few had unofficial tenants, usually rent arrears, no squats. Every one of these properties would have been prime squat material in London. Proper squats, all utilities etc, not just people living rough in an abandoned building. I knew people who did that in the Temple Bar area for a while.

My abiding memory of the rental scene in Dublin back then is scanning the small ads in the Evening Press and checking out notices in newsagents, going to look at some usually nasty, cold, damp, bedsit or flatshare and then if you were very lucky, the pleasure of paying at lest 30 or 40 quid a week, plus all those 50p’s for the meter, for the dubious honor of living in some shithole. For comparison, in the equally dysfunctional rental market of London at the time you would pay about 50 quid for a nice clean bedsit in South Kensington. Or 30/35 quid if you lived Zone 2/3. And about the equivalent of 30 quid a week for a reasonable equivalent in one of the OK areas in central Paris.

Dublin has always been a nasty rental market. The big improvement is its easier to find places now,there are now at least some legal protection for tenants, and the places are no longer the cold, damp, vermin ridden hovels that was the norm for rental properties back in the 1980’s. You’ll still be paying through the nose for the rental and it will be very bad value for money when compared to equivalent cities (say Leeds, Dusseldorf or Nantes), let alone far superior cities, but that will always be a given in Ireland.


#53

:wink: I agree JMC, Dublin in the late-70s/early 80s was horrendous for student and singles accommodation. They streamed into Dublin for study and public service jobs but nothing was built for them - they were confined to bedsits in run-down houses and many were paying up to half their take home pay in rent.

Squats were rare compared to London. Some Lefties had tried to occupy houses in the late 1960s and for a while they played ducks and drakes with the Gardai but the Forcible Entry Act 1971 put a stop to all that. The squats MetalMike remembers sound like abandoned buildings - after a few wintery nights in one of those, you’d happily pay rent even if you had to rob for it. :wink:

Young PAYE workers were hammered by the taxman back then - the biggest spontaneous demonstration this country has ever seen was the PAYE demonstration of 1979. Dare I say it - Charlie Haughey was the man who actually did something to solve the problem. S. 23 of the Finance Act gave tax relief to investors in apartments and by the mid-80s apartment blocks were sprouting up all over Dublin. Admittedly, the apartments were cramped and poorly insulated but, by comparison with the old bed-sits, they were luxury. And the property crash of the 1980s brought rents down, as did the outflow of a generation of young Irish people - silver linings! :sick: . Even during the Celtic Tiger, there was sufficient supply to keep rents from sky-rocketing. In fact, rents fell for a year or more after 9/11 and didn’t keep pace with house prices in the peak years. So those who couldn’t “get on the property ladder” could easily find apartments at rents significantly lower than today.

So there it is - Dublin now has the worst housing crisis in almost 40 years. XX


#54

Could it be an agent provocateur?


#55

So, a High Court order was carried out at 34 North Frederick Street last week (with Garda and security company assistance.)

Wonder how and when a particular SUPREME COURT order will be carried out…see thread "Supreme Court orders demolition of family home."


#56

You don’t need to look at an isolated case like that - the court lists have been full for almost 10 years with defaulting borrowers who hadn’t a leg to stand on legally but were allowed to stay in possession by the grace and favour of the judges who would send squatters to the’Joy at the first opportunity.

And then the politicians gave them back their trackers, with compo 8DD

If only the squatters could acquire from a bank the cash needed for the purchase price :nin