A Living Wage nightmare?


#1

Enda’s Operation 10-Gallon looks like a reasonable albeit modest proposal compared to what they are cooking over at Camp Red, not content with destroying jobs with Job-Burn-Bridge scheme it’s time to imagine the economy better. I wonder is Joany-Monay-Brutal reading my posts? Terra is I know that… Terra did you talk to Joany-Moany?

Has anyone noticed the pace at which similar thinking or similarly constructed legislation is being pushed or passed in various countries (beyond the EU) over the last few years and now. It’s as if they all met up somewhere and had a chat about it and reconciled to take a collective approach to push a certain flavour of agenda by legislating accordingly for?


#2

A new Quango of highly paid poof-balls to pontificate the size of your social crumb, with butter perhaps but honey no.

Onlyone mentioned elsewhere a figured circa €11.65/11.95 an hour?

Anyone got a source to back that up?


#3

Germany just brought in €8.50.
I wonder if that’s the benchmark she’s aiming for ?


#4

All things considered that’s fascinating and somewhat but not quite mind-blowing development.


#5

These fools still think they’re sovereign.
Joan’s ideas are impossible in a currency union that remains dominated by a mercantilist Germany. Impossible.


#6

A ‘living wage’ to make ‘basic needs’ more affordable. And then watch those same basic needs rise in price as the living wage comes in!
Also, as a higher wage comes in, immigration will rise even more…giving more incentive to the some natives to continue their idle ways.

Fek, 30years ago a single wage could buy a house in a reasonable 'burb in this country, have circa 5 kids etc etc. Now it takes both parents working, with the grand parents chipping in also to help with weddings, house deposits, child minding as creches are mental.


#7

Interesting. Is not the majority of its economy (70% plus) still based on the traditional Mittelstand model? How does Mercantilism play with Mittelstand? I would have thought that this model probably has the most inherent capacity to regulate itself within capitalism, without too much need for government. At least, less than other more common models of commercial organisation. I agree with your point that a lot of policy with fiscal and economic implications will have devolved to Europe for handling, based on recent very expensive national ineptitude demonstrated here. Proper order, I reckon.


#8

Agree. But the problem is not the wage increases or other ‘problems’ you cited. It’s the price of land. There is the black hole in this country.


#9

There’s a fierce amount of twaddle being talked about Germany’s “success”. The majority of the “jobs” created in Germany in the last 10 years have been fake Job-bridge pseudo-employment. It works as follows:

An economically non-viable position is created in a well-connected local business.

An unemployed person is ordered to take the fake position or starve.

He goes and works 20 hours a week there and gets paid his dole, plus €20.

Yeah, the “genius” of German capitalism. Really impressive :unamused:


#10

As usual, she would rather attempt to coerce employers to pay higher wages when the power to put more money in the pockets of low paid workers is within governments power.
Cut PAYE, PRSI. Eliminate USC. Cut VAT rates and extortionate petrol tax. Reduce road tax closer to what they have in the UK.
I’m aware that the lower paid do not pay much if any PAYE, but few people can escape the high VAT and fuel taxes which hurt the lower paid the hardest since it is a flat tax.

Of course less tax revenue is less money for quangos, public servants and vote buying.


#11

Or just work to reduce property prices, which would make living much more affordable for working people. Of course, if most of your voters aren’t actually working… :angry:


#12

Any opinions on this…

I’m taking on a 17-year old for a few weeks with the possibility of longer term work. He has zero experience. The work will be 8am-5pm, physical work but I’m not a slave driver. He has his own transport.

Obviously I’m not going to pay him what I pay lads with families, experience, or trades, but what would you pay him? His alternatives are probably farm work or the service station.


#13

I don’t think the absence of a family should count against him (and technically doing so it against the law). His labour should stand alone in therms of value.
Would you go to €10/hour? More than minimum wage.


#14

In the absence of federal legislation due to political gridlock and with the MW stuck at $7.25 since 2009 many states/cities in the US are enacting their own higher minimums. Maryland and DC have a pact into which they are trying to draw Virginia to raise to $10.10 simultaneously.
Voters in a small suburb of Seattle approved $15, then the City Council voted to extend that city wide progressively by 2018.

Obviously in the US there are a wide range of cost of living figures that vary by city/county/state.

raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/qanda


#15

Those are arbitrary figures, a figure of €50 per hour is just as valid, why not even €60 per hour? It’s the same argument as €11.95.
The reason the unions are calling for those figures is not looking out for the interests of low paid workers but rather setting a benchmark to increase their existing members claims without having to increase productivity. The Swiss people recently rejected a high minimum wage in a democratic referendum, why?. Note the change in terminology from “minimum wage” to “living wage” - why is this?

Another fact that is established and not disputable is that such a law guarantees unemployment when the productivity of your labour does not deliver worth to the employer. It has an additional effect that the existing employees must work much harder to justify the payments of said figure and it eliminates people with no or low skills from the labour force bolstering a permanent class of welfare dependants (until the system breaks). In order to maintain the illusion governments then intervene again and subsidise employment through schemes like job-bridge. (they do the same in Sweden and Germany)

As DP points out we are are in a single currency bloc up against Germany and their successful companies have concentrated on raising productivity though capital investment, apprenticeships, better management etc. This is a country with a government that is determined to increase the cost of living in order to increase taxation revenues and devalue the cost of debt through inflation, those are the consequences of taking on excess debt.


#16

Well now we all know who you ***didn’t ***bet on for the World Cup! :angry:


#17

Yeah, I’m thinking €75-80 per day initially, and rising to €90 per day if he shows a bit of initiative. I would generally pay €100-110 per day for a labourer, and €120-150 per day for a tradesman. The higher end of the range if they are supporting a family. That might be against the law, but I don’t mind.


#18

Sounds fair (other than the family thing). Careful of hitting up against minimum wage if he does a long day.


#19

Attributable Source in German or English please.


#20

I posted this in May 2012 so may need updating