A Most Revolutionary Act: FTBs are you listening?

People is angry people is confused.

People want to do something.

Let me help to clarify the real root problem, in a way I think I can, if but to explore at least another reality.

In brief context it was suggested to me not so long ago that life in Ireland had gotten so out of balance that to question house prices was akin to a revolutionary act. If you where of a mind to end the current system to allow the birth of new ones then effectively and without need for violence this would be it.

With that in mind I feel the most revolutionary and effective action right now would be thus,

**To NOT buy a house, apartment, gaff, home or whatever you want to call it by means of mortgage. **

NOT buying a house is the most effect means to instigate the decoupling of the population from the deadly grip of the Banks. It is the most peaceful form of responsible corrective action this countries people can choose to make. It would need the support of the entire population but only the action of the most crucial players, the entrants.

To deny the system new blood is the most effect means of annihilation.

I say bring an end to the first time buyer. May they no longer exist. Welcome to your new home.

Should we outlaw the mortgage?
I think its a valid question needs serious debate.
Personally I think its a valid response that need no debate to the crisis before us.

I am not suggesting people be unreasonable. Nothing stands in isolation and everyone must be open to alternative means of providing shelter. I personally would relish the opportunity to consign the mortgage to its place in history like all horrific forms of slavery and release the maximum potential and capacity of all the participants of their lifetimes.

Ireland I think finds itself in possibly a unique position in time or at least one that does not come round often presenting itself as such a fortuitous alignment of events and material realities.

There is stock of shelter beyond our current and future needs by decades.

We now stand at the juncture where if we choose as a people to end the use of the mortgage as a means to procure shelter for new generations.

I am also not suggesting default on our sovereign debts. There is absolutely no need to consider this as an option if you tackle the root cause of the crisis. The tyranny of the mortgage. We could end it for the rest of time.

I will happily answers questions and explore this idea in as much a totality as I physically and mentally can.

For the record I still do not own a house. I continue to rent.
I have no intention of owning a house in Ireland if I did I would not use a mortgage.
However that is very unlikely in the present circumstances personably, nationaly and economically.

As a board for venting anger and fustration, and for exploring the reasons and rationales of the Irish situation, This forum works very well.

As a tool for change, its useless, as is everything else you could possible weild.

resistance is futile.

Only until people are hungry and destitute, will things even LOOK to change.

I lost hope ages ago

Nothing so radical is required.
Simply bringing mortgages back to 3-4 times salary will have the desired effect.

I think its vital people understand that this only saves them from themselves.

If you limit a person to 4x their salary and they just miss out on a property, they curse the limit.
What they (constantly) fail to understand is that, the person who beat them to it is also operating under the same regime.
So they would have won anyway - just at a higher price.

Im stunned how so many fail to grasp this simple concept.

Convincing FTBs that their interests would be better served by holding off buying within the current paradigm, and instead organising to acheive better rental conditions in the meantime (more akin to European standards and practices) is a goal that is specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time-bound.

We are powerless to dictate the multiples decided upon by the property industrial complex. We are not powerless in the way OW suggests.

Yes and even the Bankers the gaurdians of their mortgage books didn’t grasp it so the mortgage is open to greeds will. This is my point. Its dangerous.

What I am trying to deal with is the inate ability of the mortgage to collapse our life systems or what we thought where valid life systems achieved.

Nationalise the housing stock.

When we are going so far ,why does a house have to cost 3-4 times salary? why not 2 times. The only reason houses cost on average x times a typical salary - with x having gone to 10 in recent times - is because mortgages were made available to that limit. There is no connect with the site or build costs. I agree in part with OW on the need to remove mortgages or should I say rather remove mortgages as a norm for housing or business activity. There will always probably be a niche need for this form of debt funding but its all pervasive status at present needs to be removed.

Why are you stunned. Never underestimate peoples stupidity.

I don’t know whether :laughing: or FFS.

True, of course.
Perhaps ‘disappointed’ would be more apt.

Both, it’s so insane it just might work!

If we get rid of mortgages, people will just find something else to go into debt.

I’m not sure it is that easy to grasp - it entails a marked increased in awareness - people have been lead down a path of perception and thinking designed to pit them against their neighbour, particularly in this case of buying a house.

To paraphrase Bakunin, “And in this day and age what is it that constitutes the principle underlying the power of the gombeen? Why, it is science. Yes, science - Science of government and administration, science of PR, media and financial science; the science of fleecing the flocks of the people without their bleating too loudly and, when they start to bleat, the science of urging silence, patience and obedience upon them by means of a scientifically organised force: the science of deceiving and dividing the masses of the people and keeping them allays in a salutary ignorance lest they ever become able, by helping one another and pooling their efforts, to conjure up a power capable of overturning the gombeen.”

I had thought before about some type of house buyers’ cartel in which we would agree not to buy a property until prices hit a certain level per neighbourhood and square footage. It would in effect do the opposite to what has been done to us-seizing control of the market.

It would require mass participation and probably some kind of legal binding with punitive clauses to stop dissenters getting a sniff of ‘value’ or a naggy wife seeing her ‘dream-home’ and throwing an extra 50k at it and breaking the agreement but I think Irish people are just too fucking thick and venal when it comes to houses for it to work.

The conditioning to be bummed and to hand over money to the establishment rather than turn the tables is just too great at this stage.

Current falls have happened because the FTBs stepped out of the market. This started happening 4 years ago.

Back to the chicken and the egg argument.

Lending / liquidity dried up, if these people could have given 50% and more of their disposable income, signed liens on their income to the banks to own their dream home, they would have and that desire has not gone away amongst large swathes of the population.

The Banks listened OW but only because they were forced.

well through affordable housing, Nama and the guarantee it’s pretty much allready done.

fait accompli

Not really, they’ve nationalised stock to withdraw it from the market and try to put a floor on prices.

The disproportionate amount of sub 25 year old males on the live register would suggest to me that there will be a severe shortage of FTBs in future years…unless, of course, prices tank so much you’ll be able to comfortably finance a house on the dole

If I find the right house at the right price and the bank are willing to give me the money when no-one else will then Im taking it.

Enjoy the revolution.