A Post 8th Amendment world - Culture of Death


Because if you don’t have a basis for discovering, assigning, or conjuring up (delete as appropriate) “rights” then you have no right (pun intended) to be pontificating about them or criticising anyone else’s idea of them.

Unless you have a basis for your idea of rights, or a cogent argument against mine, you are pissing in the wind.

I don’t know where you got that idea. I’m perfectly happy to argue about rights on any basis you choose. No deity required. “Religious nuttery” is the standard cop out of those who are too lazy to argue for their own idea of rights, but are convinced everyone who disagrees with them is an extremist.


Cool :slight_smile:

OK, I’m not very drunk, (vide infra) just drunk enough to start repeating myself. :wink:

I don’t think there is any such thing as moral right or wrong at all , beyond a simple utilitarian version of maybe what a sufficiently large number people are prepared to put up with in order to preserve peace, public order and a level of personal freedom consistent with these (Even then, I’m happy to accept that it has no justification beyond being comfortable for me and is certainly not true in any abstract, objective sense).

In many cases (but not really this one), I have a fairly firm idea of what I’d like and separately, what I’m prepared to put up with. Here, all I can say is that I don’t have a dog in the fight (being neither potentially pregnant, nor having had a vote on the matter), but nevertheless, I’m relieved that at worst, people can seemingly restrict themselves to arguing with random strangers on the internet and not disturbing my peace. :smiley:

This might sound like a very selfish and socially ignorant position, but then, I’m a pretty selfish and socially ignorant person. :wink: Still, I’m one who happily pays plenty of tax that allows the people who have to make these decisions the freedom to make them and I’m quite content to keep on paying it, as long as they leave me alone.

TL, DR version. Not My Problem .
And that’s my last word, unless I’m very drunk. 8DD

You’re probably right there. I doubt that many people here would qualify as extremists, though I suspect that some might think my views possibly are extreme, but you know what? I’m cool with that. :sunglasses: . I don’t think I’m all that extreme, except possibly in my indifference. :wink:

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. 8DD



Straight up questions:

Do you have any issue or see anything wrong with nearly 25% of all pregnancies England/Wales being aborted? Is that ok with you?


Well, you said it, not me. And I do happen to think you’re an extremist. That said, quite a likeable one, and certainly refreshingly honest about your opinions. Most other people don’t agree with you that morality is no more than social conditioning backed up by the threat of violence. As to what it is, well they often mumble something about science or rationality as if that makes the problem go away.


We know from the UK experience on the introduction of abortion, it wasn’t that women used it as contraception - the number of pregnancies stayed the same. This is detailed on the referendum thread.

It was that suddenly less babies got born

In this context it will be interesting to see when the 2019 update to this table gets posted

There’s a trend downwards. But if the number is below say 60,000 we’ll know it’s the baby Holocaust that some of us predicted.


Experience from other countries suggests that the abortion rate takes a few years to reach its steady state after legalisation. Enough time for the Holocaust to be pooh-pahed as hysteria.


Births was 59,796 in 2019. Below 60,000.


Interesting number.

I assume Terra Incognita will be along shortly to explain how free availability of abortion causes the overall figures to decrease.


Depressing. Remember, the number of registered abortions in the UK had been on a long term downward trend due to the availability of abortifacient pills. Yet we still have a huge increase compared to the number that were travelling to the UK. And I reckon it will still take several years for the new number to reach a steady state. I would expect last year’s number to more than double, even if the idea of abortion remains less inculturated than in the UK (which is closer to triple our per capita rate).

Not surprising to see the IFPA say we are “moving in the right direction”, while Amnesty want further liberalisation. Nor is it surprising to see “fatal fetal abnormaility”, one of the main wedge issues during referendum campaigning, accounting for around 1.5%.


Its about double the 2018 uk rate. Why do you think that is, PS? Abortifacient pills now counted?


Not at all. The pills would already have subtracted from the 2018 numbers. I think it’s pretty straightforward – more availability and greater social acceptability (and of course, legality, which may be the same thing in the eyes of those with a moral relativistic bent).


Irish birth rate was already below replacement, is there a demographic breakdown of who is actually having abortions?

I support abortion in a eugenic sense, but its demographic suicide to have state sponsored abortion of convenience based on current birth rates.


Ethics aside, global overpopulation will eventually lead to a catastrophic population collapse when there is an outbreak of a major virus that destroys one or more of the major global staple foods.

Having a surplus of elderly will pale into insignificance by comparison, BTW you’re completely ignoring the mass importation of “replacement” young people, so the demographic issue is a non event.


I wonder how will lockdown feed into the downstream abortion stats? I presume night club hookups are a big factor in unwanted pregnancies.


I would say it is an event, importing marginally skilled “gig labour” from the third world to sub in for (lack of)Irish births is not going to pay anyone’s pension/prop up the taxbase/lead to a stable society.


If the run on pregnancy tests is anything to go by in the early weeks/months of the lockdown, then there is the potential for spike in the deaths or births of the in utero child toward the e nd of this year and start of next, at the expense of the taxpayer either way and much more besides.


Increasing the population to pay debts is a crazy state of affairs no matter what way you look at it!


Ireland’s political and economic strategy 2000-? in one sentence


It might lead to a drop in the birth and marriage rate 4 or 5 years from now given that we will have lost out on 6 months of couples meeting and falling in love.


Are we all supposed to ignore that in our first year of legalizing abortion we have a :hot_face: SATANIC NUMBER OF ABORTIONS ?

Seriously ?

What could have have been more Satanic than Ireland’s abortion debate. Which was evil pretending to be love. The very of essence of the devil.

I’d tell you that a lot of you are going to hell, but in a Jordan Peterson sense you’re already there.