A Post 8th Amendment world - Culture of Death


#41

Isn’t property in Donegal cheap?


#42

Oliver Cromwell redivivo.


#43

That’s an impossible stance. If being drunk automatically negates a person’s capacity to consent to sex (presumably on the basis of diminished responsibility) regardless of whether that person actually provided consent prior to commission of the alleged offence, then similarly it would surely be impossible for someone who is drunk to be deemed capable of committing a crime (such as rape) on the same basis of diminished responsibility… especially given that no intent would have been present in a case where a ‘victim’ had drunkenly conveyed consent to a ‘perpetrator’ in advance of the alleged offence having taken place.

I’ve a better idea. How about encouraging some personal responsibility on the part of individuals for their own actions? How about emphasizing the concept of risk rather than absolute narcissistic entitlement in the context of individual actions? Radical I know but it might actuallyi achieve the results you desire rather than pandering to the notion that everyone needs their hand held by big brother, always, forever, from the cradle to the grave…and implanting the idea in the minds of the vulnerable, that big brother will always be on hand to help and provide assistance. He won’t.

Anyway that’s probably for a new thread.


#44

@JMC

I actually enjoy some of your more mental rants but I’ll draw a line in the sand here at some point.

First off I don’t live in Ireland. My opposition to easy access to abortion has been formed by having lived in developing countries where it is used as a means of population control ie as a tool to attack the poor and the weak. In one as a form of femicide against unborn girls which in turn has had broadly negative societal impacts. In the other country it is a form of freely available contraception and most girls have had at least one, huge numbers have many more. Millions upon millions of unborn kids have been ended as a result. There’s even a makeshift graveyard outside the capital city where Catholic volunteers (yes those evil Catholics) bring the fetus’ and body parts that they have retrieved from a dump, and give them a form of burial. Indeed, a parsing of the abortion figures for African Americans may actually provide an indication of what lies ahead for the poor of Ireland…of course I really hope not.

Furthermore, your own constant racialised/sectarian/class type hatred against what you perceive to be the less worthy rural peasant Irish stock (and indeed their cousins in the urban working class) would be deeply offensive if applied to any other groups. In the context of anaylysing the figures, one angle to consider with regard to the change in attitudes generally is the impact that emigration has had, over the course of a century and from the 1950s onwards, on the very existence of those poor Irish people who you (and your ilk) so despise. Over time, so many, maybe a majority, ended up in England or Massachusets or Chicago and this may be an overlooked contributor to the sea change in attitudes that has been witnessed. As the grandchild of such people who, unusually enough, happened to come home, I find the bilious hatred spouted by the likes of you who attended Trinity College for people who were forced to leave school at 13 to go to abroad for work to be indicative of you being little more than a privileged oaf.

Indeed, your constant moralizing and faux intellectualism ring very hollow when your previous stances in Defence of Thatcher, Pinochet, Apartheid South Africa, British colonialism, American imperialism etc etc are each considered…rendering your references to the ‘reactionary tone’ of some posts utterly comical.

Ultimately youre nobody to be offering lessons in morality to anyone


#45

Poacher, on RTE TV referendum results coverage yesterday they gave a breakdown of the percentage of yes voters across socio-economic groups. In in more affluent areas the percentage yes vote was higher than in poorer areas , top of my head it was 10% higher. This was said with a straight face by the way. I knew exactly what was implied.

Another slogan bandied about was that immigrants were more disadvantaged in accessing abortion services. i will just leave that hanging and everyone draw their own conclusion


#46

anyone concerned about Irish Republicanism should get their skates on. One party that could barely get a TD or MP elected 25 years ago is about to conduct their border poll. I wonder how the cafe and croissants crowd in the College of the most holy and undivided Trinity near Dublin will take this. Get your skates on.


#47

how long do you have?
you do realise that there are people in this thread calling for the criminalisation of drunken sex!


#48

I wish the vote was for the so called “hard cases” only, I would have voted yes , but i don’t trust out politicians to do the hard thing so I voted no.
Spin it anyway you want but many perfectly healthy viable babies are going to be slaughtered because generation snowflake didn’t feel ready for parenthood , the money is better spent on the newest iphone or their avocados on toast…
Personally i find the jubilant scenes with people hugging etc absolutely sickening, what are they celebrating - the right to murder perfectly healthy babies for all?, whats so great about that?. Its an uncomfortable truth but that is what is going to happen. We need babies, killing them because your are not “ready” for parenthood isn’t the right way, there are plenty of people who cannot conceive that would be delighted to adopt the life you brought into this world and give it all the love you never would.
Lets hope the politicians make this as difficult as possible for the lifestyle choice ones, but I doubt it.


#49

As far as I can tell it was a strong Yes vote across all socioeconomic and all age groups in both rural and urban areas except the over 65’s and let’s face it the over 65’s are the least likely to be faced with a crisis pregnancy. Hardly worth you flippant tirade against “generation snowflake”


#50

It reminds me of those Mental Health campaign ads where they say stuff like, “suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” In many cases (but not all, of course) a “crisis” pregnancy is a temporary problem. A permanent solution will now be much more readily available.


#51

It’s time to move on. If you have a well thought out constructive opinion on the proposed legislation now is the time to contact your representatives with your constructive suggestions. I have already made contact with mine suggesting some amendments such as to the definition of “Termination of pregnancy” contained in the bill.

I don’t want a situation were viable babies are aborted in one part of the hospital while in another part we are battling to save them. The current bill as worded appears to allow this. I will be strongly advocating for this to tighten up as the bill passes through the Dail.

Aside from that the HSE/DoH/Min for Health needs to now provide the funding for the service that the Maternity hospitals are about to propose to them or they need to accept that the service will be largely provided for privately by 3rd parties like Marie Stopes or the BPAS.

A lot of work to do prior to this becoming law.


#52

“Generation Snowflake?” What a load of BS. The arguments for allowing abortion in Ireland 2018 where the same as in the rest of the western world in the 70ies and 80ies. So depending on your age, pretty much by your own age group or your parents.

Snowflake my arse.


#53

To paraphrase Father Ted – will ye ever shut up that gob of yours before you make a complete feckin’ eejit of yourself…

As I said when I have voted in Ireland I have followed to the letter the laws governing such voting. In all seven times in thirty eight years. Five times in the 1980’s. Twice in the last 15 years. Both times in referenda. On all occasions I was in status as an Ordinary Resident of the Republic of Ireland and registered at my primary residence while physically present in the ROI.

Do you know the difference between ordinary resident, statutory resident and normal resident? Nah? Seems not. How about domiciled or non domiciled residence? Or primary or secondary place of residence or other normal place of residence. How about the 90 day rule? Or the 183 day rule? Or the 280 + 30 day rule? The three year rule? Or the one year in three or the three years in five rules? Or in non anglophone countries the 7 day, 15 day, or 30 day rules (varies by country) while at the same location not a commercial hotel?.

To those of us who live in multiple countries this is the world we live in. And you can be rest assured that I have been an in-status Ordinary Resident of the ROI for a reasonably large chunk of the last four decades. And most certainly was in the 1980’s when voting and on the two occasions I have voted since. Its in the nature of multi national living that you keep a full and complete paper trail of exactly where you were, which country and for how long, to the last day, for at least the last decade or two. If you have ever dealt with the IRS you will know why. So yes, I can prove exactly where I was on any given day in the last 20 years or so and even beyond. And over the last two decades I spent more than enough time in Ireland to retain or restablish Ordinary Resident status for most of that time.

Thank you for proving yet again that scratch a doctrinaire conservative Irish Catholic and you will find a foaming at the mouth authoritarian bully. And thank you for providing me with yet another anecdote proving that too many people in Ireland still have yet to understand even the most basic principals of parliamentary democracy. That the right to vote is a civic right and civic duty conferred by citizenship and citizenship alone and not some gift conferred by the state purely to those who remain full time in the country to vote election after election for politicians who protect their rent seeking scams, give them scraps from the public purse, and implement policies that have driven abroad over the decades 20% of the population. Who they then proceed to try and disenfranchisement and deny the vote to.

Maybe the next generation will have a better understanding of how a democracy actually works. Too many of the current generation obviously dont.

It must be so very comforting to live in such a tiny tiny universe as yours. With not a worry in the world to disturb it. I’m so glad my one little act could upset you so much. Such sanctimony and smugness and petty minded bigotry deserves a good kick in the arse every now and then. For old times sake.

I’d keep to the astronomy posts if I were you. The one subject you seem to know a bit about. But you do have a bit of a tendency to anorak on occasions. But on the whole a sterling effort.

And I did note you did not take up my offer of coffee…I’m hurt. I tell ya, I’m hurt. Some people are such sore looser.

So when’s the next referendum I can vote in? Knowing my luck I’ll be out of the country.


#54

Sorry if my post ruffled a few feathers. But fact of the matter is, a certain generation are the ones (mostly)getting pregnant, with respect how others feel doesn’t matter a damn, they are not the ones making these choices. Its a fact that the likely result of this is that abortions rates in the coming years are likely to rise to the oft quoted one in five/four pregnancies in other countries. If you think all those are crises pregnancies than you are deluded or at worse choosing to ignore some uncomfortable truths.
When my wife was pregnant with out first we were told after about ten weeks it was considered that the pregnancy would go to completion and it was safe to tell everyone the news, ironic now that the mooted legislation is proposing 12 weeks as the cutoff…
I have a lot of sympathy for those in difficult circumstances and need to terminate medically or for other reasons such as rape but we all know that’s not going to be the case here and that saddens me greatly.
If it was I’d be celebrating my yes vote today too. But it wasnt, and i’m not.


#55

Better off having others choose for them?


#56

Lot’s of people on the No side were ready to offer sympathy when they began to realise that they were going to lose. They offered no help in the 35 years they had to do so.

The Catholic church responded to unintended pregnancy outside of marriage by ostracising the mother, perhaps indenturing her to slavery, taking the child off her for adoption or the orphanage and the industrial school. We are not long from these days and the attitude that supported this is stilled maintained by many.

If there had been genuine care and compassion after 1983 I think the No campaign would have had a better case. No matter what they do now they will never regain that ground. There are now 2 generations that are sick of the hypocrisy and the younger of these generations will be around long enough to bury all of those that still support it

Their attitude led to the hard cases being even harder and creating a climate of fear in the medical profession which made them unable their job in those hard cases where normally they would have been able to explain the situation in medical terms and to allow the patient and their family to make the decision.

I don’t know if you’ve been involved in a situation where someone related to you is on life support and a doctor explains the medical situation to you and asks you whether you want them to continue trying to keep the person alive. I have - there is a look in their eyes which tells you there is no real hope but they will try if you want them to - when it is an elderly person for whom you would only be prolonging a certain decline and forestalling an ultimate demise the decision is usually a foregone conclusion but you also know that they will do what they can - perhaps if a relative is travelling to be there at the end. That is the nearest I can come to the decision that doctors and patients have to make together in the much more difficult circumstances relating to the start of life - but imagine if there was a threat of a jail sentence if either you, or the doctor, could be accused of making the wrong decision.


#57

Indeed, lot of sour grapes coming from old farts, content with their high house prices and their ticket to heaven, content to damn the rest, and in particular the younger generations who are, as far as I can see, working harder for less and thinking more about what they want and what they do than my generation ever did.


#58

Gosh, the no voters really are cracking up. Look, you didn’t lose anything, you can have all the babies you want, so can your mistresses and your wives, etc. The only thing you think you lost is control of my uterus, which you shouldn’t have had, or wanted, in the first place.


#59

Look on the bright side - abortion will sort out the housing crisis in a few generations.


#60

Not when we have to house all the immigrants we will need to do all the work!