A Post 8th Amendment world - Culture of Death


#141

A lot of the Irish I met in Australia didn’t want to be there. Like crisis pregnancies Ireland just told them to feck off after shafting an entire generation.

Any sign of Seanie Fitz being held to account? Nah, another 30 years before we take white collar criminality seriously.


#142

I think the big mistake that a lot of commentators made during this campaign, including myself, was thinking that logic, ideas or even beliefs mattered. What dominated were feelings. Really strong feelings.

Now there is a particular brand of reactionary conservative idiot that things that the world is going to hell in a handcart because modern youth is obsessed with their own feelings, but my belief is that the human experience has ALWAYS been about feelings.

I wasn’t around for the previous referendum on this subject, but from what I can gather the predominant feelings were fear and guilt.

This time round the feelings were much more positive. Solidarity, hope, independence, taking back control. All the smiley female faces of the Yes campaign weren’t some media management tactic. Women were talking, men were listening. Not just pretty young women in the flush of youth, but older women -mothers and grandmothers, making a cathartic grab for something they’ve been denied. Deeply buried shame and regret was being transformed into a positive hope for the future.

I was wrong to think there would be no jubilation. There was. They’re not jubilant about abortions, they’re jubilant about gaining freedom.

What we the feelings on the No side? I don’t know. They tried to look positive, but that wasn’t credible. Every feeling that mattered is right there in the word No.

The No’s who are still arguing the toss about arbitrary limits and slaughter of the innocents ought to recognise that their message just didn’t connect this time round. Those feelings of guilt and shame are from last century Ireland. That Ireland is dead.

Positivity has won out. I empathize sincerely with those who think that abortion is murder, and that this positivity is disgusting. But again, nobody wants an abortion, they just want the choice when they feel they have no other. The negativity that you feel won’t help your cause, because this Yes is a rejection of negativity.


#143

A lot of the Irish I met in the US in the 80’s didn’t want to be there either and I think you’ll find a lot of the Irish in the UK in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s would say the same thing. There has been more than one Seanie Fitz for every decade in this country. Perhaps every generation was shafted by the previous generation or perhaps it just feels that way. My money is on each generation just getting on with things the best they can and for the most part actually caring about the next generation. They are their offspring after all. I agree 100% regarding white collar crime.


#144

That’s your projection.

With regards feelings and thoughts, it’s healthy to listen to them but not be ruled by either.


#145

Continue to quibble. It won’t make any difference.

I’m out.


#146

What really gets me about ‘bodily autonomy’ is that it has to be one of the most psychopathic concepts ever thought of, the idea that the little clump o’cells is completely parasitical on the mother. Two years ago when asked about writing a new proclamation of independence, an elected senator wanted “bodily autonomy” to be in a new draft of the proclamation.

The only bodily autonomy that I would agree to is against forced gestational surrogacy. If society was n the verge of that we would already be vanquished.


#147

That sounds suspiciously like a suggestion that the No should take their beating and shut up. I don’t see any mileage in that. You can’t expect them to suddenly think it’s positive that two thirds of the population can countenance killing their own offspring with, as you say, no sense of guilt. That’s not positive, it’s horrific. It makes it all the more impossible to stay silent. (Though it still means one third of the population support life – a great positive).

We’ve had thirty five years of tens of thousands of lives saved. That’s incredibly positive. Now the battleground must move to appeals to individual conscience and saving individual lives. That too is positive. The only thing that could be negative is capitulation.


#148

Mullens views and beliefs were well known long before this referendum so those who voted for him will know exactly what they voted for

That little campaign is pathetic however either he gets in at the next election or he doesn’t if we want to sack every politician who says something stupid then there won’t be many left


#150

yeah, he should write that, because the optics in Dublin castle on Saturday with those people cheering and hollering wasnt good at all. not good at all. This was also noted by the international media. St. Fintan is too late to absolve any of that.


#151

Ruth isnt happy
independent.ie/irish-news/a … 56260.html


#152

The day or two before the vote, Varadkar specifically mentioned in the Dail that Clare Daly and Coppinger had put the issue on the agenda when many others would have preferred to duck the issue.

Maybe he should say it again? More loudly?
Or maybe she just wants a row.

Anyway, he was surely talking about the wider public rather than activists. Think of the people in the Healy-Raes’ constituency who voted by a slim majority to repeal the amendment. They were probably not advertising their views on the Kilorglin Main Street (or the Healy-Raes would have recalibrated their views accordingly - not changing their minds, but probably toning down the rhetoric).


#153

Should this stuff all be Pistoned?

We could do with a good property/economic crisis to get us back on track…


#154

Zappone hoping that a minority group sets the tone for social change


#155

if this was the case, they would have encouraged them in #GE16 just 8 months after the gay marriage referendum. That didnt happen, and all of the new arrivals to the Dail in GE11 barely scraped back in. Ms 7% 1st prefs hoping the young roll in behind her, careful what she wishes for.


#156

No disrespect to Openwheel and his team, but the decline set in a long time before mid 2016.


#157

thejournal.ie/abortion-simon … 4-May2018/

Where do people stand on allowing doctors or pharmacists to choose whether to facilitate abortions? Pro-choice?


#158

well its already provided for, they can opt out but need to refer onwards, fair enough id suggest


#159

She’s also not happy about the 72 hour clause pre 12 weeks. Apparently this is paternalistic and insulting to women.


#160

oh the misogyny!


#161

I think the 72hrs cooling off period is a good idea. Even if you order the pills off the Internet it takes a few days to get them. Useful time for introspection. Who knows how many women changed their mind while waiting for them. That’s the period where positive options and alternatives can be offered/ considered.