Act now, minister, or we will all live to regret it - DmcW

independent.ie/opinion/analy … 44060.html

Debt forgiveness for mortgage holders, wtf DmcW? :imp:

Unless he means a change in the bankruptcy laws to one of jingle mail for hardship cases? :question:

Also, are you ready to put your money in to help the banks balance sheets? 8DD

Certainly am. Been banging on about it for a while now.

Rather than debt forgiveness, give every PPR in Ireland 60k in these bank bonds. Those with mortgages have to pay that much off their mortgages. Those without get to wait 5 years to see how much they are worth!

DEBT Forgiveness … XX

I am giving up … how does that work. You make a loss with your own money and others pay for it. So we are not all treated equally.

I lost all my savings in a business venture last year. Can someone please get my money back.
My pension is worthless. Can someone please get my money back.

F*CK of Mcwilliams !!

I come on now. We’re talking about the ability to declare personal bankruptcy here. If you’ve lost your job and your house is in negative equity and you’ve no ability to cover the mortgage you should be able to declare bankruptcy. An audit should be done. House and assets handed over to bank and thats it. There should be no recourse to the debt for years to come. It’s secured on the house after all. Should be banks problem that it’s worth less than it was secured for.

He was on Pat Kenny show earlier and qualified this by saying that in relation to houses.
Those who bought recently should have a percentage of debt foregiven… with this then repaid at a later stage.
Say, when the gaff is sold.

It would have the effect of applying something akin to the AH scheme retrospectively and to anyone who has bought property.

Therefore reducing there mortgage debts… and allowing them to fuel the economy with their increase in disposable income.

The biggest flaw I can see is what happens say if I’ve bought some place for 500k… now worth 300k
I get foregiven this 200k… what would stop me going out… selling the thing for 300k … and writing of the loss to the government…
It’s unpalpable alright but in fairness to him… he is at least putting forward ideas.
And ideas are there to be praised or shot down…
A lot of the other commentators are given us nothing.

what are the consequences of not re-capitalising the banks and leaving them the fuck alone?

Seriously, why is it so important?

In simple terms they have given all their money (capital) to super-canny developers for property bubble speculation.

They are not going to get it back, they’ve lost most of that money, they just haven’t admitted it yet.

So now they have almost no money to lend, because there is a massive hole in their balance sheets. The economy needs credit to function properly. The banks could hunker down for the next five to ten years, they might eventually pull through but the effects of this credit freeze would be pretty devastating to the rest of the economy.

So the lesser evil is to give them more money (recapitalise them) so they can lend again - although not to piss it up the wall on property speculation again, one hopes.

That’s why the boards of the banks need to be sacked, to make sure the same idiots don’t fuck it all up again.

Yup. Same for cars (secured on an asset). Same for credit cards (i.e. they are secured on nothing, so there should be no comeback for default other than the usual bankruptcy terms).

So prudence is out the window and credit binges are to be rewarded?

Yeah, that will teach us how to build a sustainable economy and how to manage money, alright.

Why not have a government backed SSIA. That would put cash into the banks for the next few years. Maybe have some incentive for lump sums depositied up front.

DMcW seems to be the one who came up with the guarantee scheme. I suspect he doesn’t walk on water.

A flight of capital from the country, credit completely stopping, a run on the banks. The negativity would feedback on itself. We would end up seeing a complete collapse of the bank system and in turn, the economy.

Doing nothing is not an option.

Great answer, thanks for the reply.
My next (2) questions are:

  1. Why the urgency?
    2.If there is urgency why have the government not acted sooner

Because they are as useless as the heads of the banks.

Heres one particular answer to these questions

Why the Urgency?
The sooner they are recapitalised the less open they are to being taken over or oreyed upon, the less likely they are to fail and the more likely that they will be in a position to help Irish business sooner rather than later.

If there is urgency why have the government not acted sooner
Stupidity, couldnt quite work out how to do it and bail out their developer friends at the same time, havent mastered multi-tasking or not quite aware how precarious a position the country is really in as they are politicians so acknowledging mistakes wouldnt be high on their list of priorities.

Really, you can pick a number to answer this one as their are millions of them.

I don’t think we need to worry about debt forgiveness. If the government was to try to do any/all of the points on this list it would mean that they were prepared to roll up their sleeves and really get stuck into the problem. Can I get a show of hands who thinks that this government has the necessary wherewithall to go through with anything close to something as radical as this plan? This is the builders party we’re talking about. I think its fair to say that Lenihens budget showed us that the bleeding-edge of thought in FF is that if we go to sleep beneath this pile of coats then perhaps when we wake up in a year or two all these problems will have gone away on their own.

So however you may feel about the floppy-haired-ones radical plan I wouldn’t worry about it. I’d say there is a snowballs chance in hell of it actually happening.

Because it is difficult to maintain any credibility in your banking sector when they are a bunch of penny stocks, shunned by both investors and capital markets alike, busying themselves pretending everything’s grand - when everyone knows that they’re absolutely fooked including themselves.

The government, like the management of the banks, the central bank and the financial regulator have their heads firmly buried up their own arses. It’s nice and warm and you can spend all day every day marvelling at how sweet the smell of your own shit is.

thanks for the answers, sometimes, the stupid questions need asking

We’ve already guaranteed their liabilities so allowing any to fail is no longer an option

what about the other banks not covered by the financial act, they could could effectively rob cash starved but viable business off the Irish banks. i have a feeling this not going to end as most expect. the market and not political could dictate endgame.