Adios Fidel

Just read that Fidel Castro has passed on. R.I.P. It’s definitely a brand new world out there. Everyone from my past seems to be “passing on” this year. I wonder what implications it will have for Cuba, what with a new President in the U.S and the general opening up of Cuba, which had been instigated by President Obama?
Anyway hope it’s ok to post this news here. Spent time in Cuba about 15 years ago , lovely people, and I’m sad for them now.

There isn’t much love for Castro by those who live there and/or those who escaped the place.

Michael D pays tribute.

president.ie/en/media-library/news-releases/statement-by-president-michael-d.-higgins-on-the-death-of-fidel-castro

Even by his standards it’s fairly disgusting

RIP Fidel Castro.

Yeah, I’m in my mid 40s and this year feels like some kind of general clear-out of icons, even the Trump presidency feels like the end of the last of my idealistic views of the USA.

As was said on the Brexit thread, there are decades when nothing happens then there comes months where decades happen.

Have never been to Cuba, heard varying reports from people who been that put it down my priority list. One friend told me he was put off Cuba for life after seeing how openly the pedo business was being run by the cops, and he’d been a real Castro fan!

The Nelson Mandela Foundation: "President Mandela had a close relationship with President Castro and always remembered his solidarity with the anti-apartheid movement. Talking in a documentary produced in 1990 President Mandela explained his loyalty: ‘The first country we approached was the United States of America. We could not even succeed to come close to the government, and they refused to assist us. But Cuba, the moment we appealed for assistance they were ready to do so and they did so.’

Not saying he was an angel, but inside Cuba there was huge respect for him from the population. He was a man of principle, and was not afraid to stand up for what he believed in. The American embargo held Cuba back, yet even so, to observe the resilience of the Cubans and their warmth and humanity was touching. From those I spoke to when I was there, (luckily I was staying in peoples houses- not tourist resorts) in general, the majority while bemoaning their lack of wealth, had no great love for the U.S and its way of life, and the way it bullied Cuba. What was there before the revolution was not good, all would have agreed.

Well it must also be remembered that the health advances in cuba of the 30s which saw life expectancy ahead of the USA have been credited way too much to Castro who came decades after.

Correct. They remember the 110K plus people he killed over the years, mostly peasants. The tens of thousands of political prisoners, many tortured to death. And the billions he and his family stole.

2016 is not all bad news. One less evil fucker alive.

How will this news affect the price of a 3 bed suburban semi-d?

In Havana there is already a property price boom over the last few years and you missed the boat (no pun intended) :laughing:

ft.com/content/95d3017e-d36 … 144feab7de
qz.com/450680/without-even-lifti … list-cuba/

there was a good BBC feature on the topic cant find it now unfortunately

Cuba has 3 options

  • Remain in stasis (tho its probably too late for that now with recent reforms)
  • Follow the Chinese model (where it seems to be heading)
  • Becoming a normal country (unlikely unless the old guard go away)

At least it isn’t cursed with sufficient natural resources to follow the fourth post-communist pathway.

  • Turn into a petrokleptomafia state like Russia or the *stans.

The Castro regime continues to subdue it’s citizens freedom of movement, elections, speech and dissent (among many other things).
And in true dictatorial fashion, he appointed a family member to succeed him.

Anyone who holds him in any regard needs to have a long hard look at their moral compass.

There’s no point in saying he had successes in education and health*.
Because the cost of which has been monumental.

To me, the greatest sadness has been the potential of the Cuban people, which has been inhibited, curtailed and stunted for generations.
Think about the amount of Cubans whose ideas, energy and passions have been snuffed out because they weren’t in line with the ruling party.
So much potential left to waste.
As an atheist, I don’t believe in life after death or reincarnation.
So to have the potential of your one life eliminated because of a dictator is sickening.
Yet our own el presidente mourns his passing.

*Their education & health service doesn’t even compare to Ireland’s.
We’re light years ahead.
But you won’t hear the lefties say that.

Well if I was earning a salary the size of our “El Presidente” and had as many pensions to fall back on then I be a socialist too :smiley: its easy to preach something and be an armchair socialist when it doesn’t affect you in any way…

Funnily enough there was a documentary on Russia the other night and how everyone was crying when Stalin died (was murdered by his inner circle?) it took decades for his crimes to become apparent which eventually became yet another nail in the USSR coffin. This could be the case here.

But all that aside there is a sizable Cuban community here because Aeroflot Havana<>Moscow flight used to stop in Ireland for an hour or so and many took the opportunity to claim asylum, everyone in this group I know is quite happy hes dead but unfortunately seems his legacy lives on in his brother and the recent attempts at “reform” are glacial.

Amen.

Nothing says clueless affluent right on low information middle class twit like someone yammering on about how great Castro was and the supposed improvements he brought to the country. If you have known any Cuba Americans, by far the most successful hispanics in the US, its heart breaking to think what Cuba could have been today if it had not been for Castro. It could easily be the equal of Chile or Uruguay rather than a dilapidated basket case it is. Until the rest of the Castros are ousted its future is basically Somoza Nicaragua. A pure kleptocracy.

Khrushchev blew the lid on the crimes in '56. Three years after Stalin was killed by Beria. Which is when they started emptying the Gulags. Not that they were ever totally shutdown. My friends uncle died sometime in the early 70’s in one. Having been sent to a Soviet concentration camp in 1940 as a 16 year old because his father was a Baltic German senior local government official in Lithuania. The Soviets shot every other male member of the family in Lithuania at the time of the invasion. The communists either shot most of the adult male members of Baltics educated class in 1940 or sent them with the rest of their family into the worst of the Soviet concentration camps. Kids and all.

On the whole I have more contempt for the Useful Idiots in the West than for the communists. Who I loathe as pure evil.

The health and education gains do look impressive, more so the education

I suspect that most of the health gains were down to the fact that most Cubans are on a permanent diet whether they like it or not, if the population of the US for some reason lived the same way the gap might close, far less diabetes and heart attacks ect

I remember years ago reading Fidel’s “History will Absolve me” speech, it seemed to me that you could accuse Fidel of the very same crimes as the Batista regime, Batista actually granted Fidel an amnesty, which is more than Fidel ever did for his critics/enemies

I hope things will improve for the Cubans, they have been waiting for this day for a long time

This is precisely the reason why the stats on the Cuban health service looks so good.
There’s no way it could even cope with our relentless weekend A&E admissions.

Cuba scores on preventative health.
No McDonalds & having to walk everywhere because you can’t afford a car is probably the best start to any health service.
But nobody in their right mind would trade them.

It’s well documented that wartime rationing in the UK resulted in an increase in life expectancy.

Didn’t the ration generation later suffer more bone density issues than those before and after the war?

Never read that.
Most I heard about was an increase in flatulence.
Do you have a link ?