AirBnB planning permission Dublin?


#102

A: No


#103

Listening to Liveline, caller made a point that you can convert a stable/whatever into an Airbnb and write off the renovations against tax


#104

What was his point?
And when you sell if you’ll pay capital gains tax I.e. lose PPR exemption. You’ll pay income tax, USC and PRSI on the profit (or PRSI on the gross even??)


#105

Not really… it depends what ‘converting’ involves. If it means buying furniture, yes. If it means carrying out construction works, then no. That would be capital improvements, you won’t get any deduction of income tax for it. When you eventually sell it you can deduct the cost of acquiring the stable + the conversion costs against the sale price to reduce your capital gain, thus saving 33% in CGT. Generally speaking though people talking about ‘writing off’ the costs are talking about getting an immediate deduction for income tax, which would not be the case.


#106

RE: Spencer Dock - I stayed there for a few weeks in a corporate ‘short stay apartment’ sort of thing run by an Irish company (name escapes me right now) with Synergy as the provider from my company’s POV

Are those no longer OK too? How long (days versus weeks) makes it a disallowed ‘short term’ let versus an allowed ‘short term’ let? Is it literally just AirBNB being targeted?

Some of those apartments are on booking.com for example, not through airbnb: booking.com/hotel/ie/grand-c … ments.html

Thought: Could this management company action be anything to do with a request from whomever owns those apartments used for longer-but-still-relatively-short stays not wanting individual unit owners eating their lunch?


#107

That’s my point. Everyone seems to have a feeing that AirBnB is bad but no-one has a definition of what “bad” means. Let alone something that’s enforceable under current law.


#108

I really don’t think there’s any ambiguity. It’s not some inconscionable grey area. It’s been explained from a planning and residential lease perspective on this thread.

To add yet another badge of what and who belongs in a residential multi occupier building (where the planning granted doesn’t include holiday lets) in a unit by them self (ie not just a non paying guest of an owner) - are the utility bills are in your name or your employers name ?
Yes - Welcome !
No - you don’t. This is not where you should be


#109

Yes it’s a big grey area. Your criterion excludes most tenancies under 1 year. What about corporate 3-month lets? Are they “bad”? Probably not. What about 1-month? Hmmm maybe. What about 21 days? etc.


#110

Again you want this to be more complicated than it is. Residential property in a residential building should require a residential lease. No prtb lease should mean you are not in building. A hundred scenarios doesn’t change that.

I have to admit I don’t know a thing about the usual terms and conditions of ‘corporate lets’. Which used to be a fairly low key business. But we’ve come to an impasse here with a ‘disruptive’ entrant in Airbnb. Whatever corporate letting customs have developed are going to need to adapt.


#111

You say it’s not a grey area but clearly it is, since you’ve posted two different criteria, neither of which is sufficient as an actual criterion in this case IMHO.

Let me ask again – is a 3-month corporate let “bad”? What about a 1-month corporate let?

To be clear I agree that short-term and long-term are different, and short-term is not appropriate for many places, but as usual the powers that be have descended into Irish solutions to the problem, none of which have any rigour, and some of which are likely to simply enrich the lawyers.

Realistically the only way to sort this is to lay down a minimum length of lease which is acceptable without planning. Anything else is a fudge (like the “commercial” crap from ABP and DCC). However this may require changes in planning regs or even legislation, which everyone is desperately trying to avoid.


#112

I think my cited criteria are related actually - utility bills go hand in hand with a residency.

You’re reminding me of Garret Fitzgerald (and that’s not a compliment) who famously said ‘that’s all very well in practice but how is it in theory?’

The commercial references made by ABP and DCC are not “crap”. “Guests” (rather than “tenants”) coming and going in a hotel fashion is commercial like…wait for it…a hotel ! Which is not what the building has been designated to be.


#113

Not necessarily. There are many serviced lets for example that might be many months long but the utilities are included and so remain in the landlord’s name. Same for house shares and student lets.

You’ve actually hit the nail on the head there, and I’ve been known to say similar things. My brain craves a rigorous solution to this sort of thing.


#114

Had a lads weekend away there a few weeks back. We used booking.com rather than airbnb but it soon become obvious we were staying in an apartment that was at least 50% long-term residential occupancy.

We weren’t particularly loud, sober anyway.

However one of the lads came back late, alone, and mistook the next door entranceway to our one. He fumbled with the keys for a while which wouldn’t work, tried calling those inside but couldn’t, before ringing the buzzer persistently until he roused a very grumpy stranger. This was 3am.

There’s a whole range of security issues too. Keys are far more likely to go missing/get copied which undermines the security of the communal areas.


#115

NYCs just outlawed apartments for short term holiday lets…


#116

Actually, technically they did not. There was an existing ban in place but a new law has been signed that imposes bigger penalties for violators (the old law had now teeth so everyone ignored it, like in Ireland). However it’s all being challenged in court and is unlikely to be resolved quickly.

By the way, NY does it by defining 30 days as the minimum letting period for an entire dwelling.


#117

The point that seems to be missing here in various comments about drunk lads and lassies waking up long term occupiers is that the problem is really THE DRUNK LADS AND LASSIES.

Fix the real problem!


#118

What, via Prohibition? :smiley:


#119

Yeah, this sounds about right. Used to live in an apartment building in Temple Bar, I’d say I got this exact thing at least once every two weeks. Later on, elsewhere in the city centre, i didn’t get idiots ringing the wrong door, but did get balcony parties til 5am every few days from the Airbnbs surrounding. It’s a complete disaster for residential apartment buildings; I’m all for banning it.


#120

I believe the reciprocal reviews if AirBnB are pointless. “Host” is reluctant to say that yer man and his mates made a mess and disturbed the neighbours for fear of a negative review.

There aren’t the same repercussions a long term or corporate tenant faces. Denying the impact of it is shitting on the property rights of others and not some kind of brave capitalisn


#121

Last year 3 of us had to stay overnight in Dublin for work. Scandalised at the price of rooms one of the lads came up with this villas.com/en-gb/ireland/dub … srfid=1276 The George Frederick Handel Apts. Great location for what we wanted I think it was € 180 ALL in not including breakfast. Talking to a few people some folk live there on a full time basis. Its somewhere between an apartment complex and AirBnB