airbnb


#21

San Diego starts fining people who rent on AirBnB without a (B&B) permit and tax registration. First fine was $25,000. Shit’s getting real yo.

sandiegoreader.com/news/2015 … th-fined/#


#22

A perfect example of how not to organise tax collection. :unamused:

Many states in the US are rapidly turning into a Licence Raj. Much of it now has among the most complex tax and trading licensing systems in the developed world.

It’s not brain surgery. Make tax compliance quick and simple, with a minimum of paperwork, offer a few cheap sweeteners, publicly shame those who evade it and people will comply because it will be the course of least resistance, then you (the authorities) will get (near enough) all the tax you’re supposed to get.

You don’t give people a fifty page form and a fee to comply. You give them a free one page form and then if they don’t fill it in, a fifty page one and a big penalty fee to account for why they didn’t comply.

It’s not bloody difficult.


#23

Okay, so San Diego should come to you when the cute family are burned in their AirBNB with no fire alarm and no exit plan? :wink:

For regulators it’s a tricky one - I’ve stayed in a couple of AirBNB apartments and they were fab, not least because there’s little else that caters to a family of four, with a serious dietary need ( :blush: ) that like being able to flob about a living room in the heat of the day. However much I like AirBNB (as opposed to Uber for example), I do see the problem; most of the objections are just red tape and tax/fee collection, as you say, but do you have no visitor safety standards at all? No hygiene standards?


#24

Maybe unannounced inspections and immediate non-negotiable prosecution on detected safety non-compliance (as contrasted with a bureaucratic nightmare for tax non-compliance)? That kind of thing tends to work fairly well because of the fear factor; people will insure themselves against all kind of unlikely events if they’re scared enough of the consequences and the detection rate is non-trivial. As an alternative, a one-off inspection with the initial registration (more expensive, I accept) and an anonymous official complaint site for customers might do.

The idea is that tax compliance, like all the basic essentials of civilised life, should be like being given a carving knife and asked not to stick it in your heart. The desired outcome should be unthinking and the alternative too awful to contemplate. :smiley:


#25

Yeah, I agree with you. I think the initial inspection followed by reports is a good idea.


#26

I get that the clue is in the name BnB but to me this is a typical ebrief try on by revenue to cover out something that legislation isn’t clear on. It is far from clear to me that section 216a of the taxes consolidation act doesn’t apply to what people were doing. 216a is pretty broad ranging as long as the property is your “residence”

I’d like to see this challenge this. Pity the company didn’t fund a challenge.


#27

Double post


#28

:laughing: As if.
The company will be tax domiciled in Ireland, at least for European purposes.
Why do you think this is happening?


#29

You make income, then you pay the tax. There are 23 inspectors that can walk into a registered hotel or accommodation provider and shut it down. There are several hundred regulations covering hotels and B&Bs. It is unfair to exempt AirB&B providers from these regulations and any attempt to do so will fail.


#30

Please explain this. Who are these 23 wise men ? Are they from Bord Failte. If so, do you think this sector regulated by Bord Failte. Providers aren’t using the term “hotel”
Do you think peer to peer lending is regulated by the Central Bank ?


#31

…and how much are we taxpayers paying these guys?


#32

Dublin ninth most expensive European city for hotels
I’ve noticed a big increase during recent trips to Dublin.


#33

Worst thing is prices are all going up despite the 9% VAT rate, which has to go at some point soon you’d imagine


#34

Accountancy firm supports Airbnb’s view on tax relief

irishtimes.com/business/acco … -1.2315104


#35

Looks like a court case needed to create a precedent


#36

independent.ie/business/iris … 45714.html


#37

Wasn’t it always considered taxable by the SW?


#38

I’d imagine that it was always considered as income, where declares, for the purpose of assessing social welfare entitlements - it’s just the usual Indo bleeding heart stuff.
I thought that irrespective of whether you paid tax on it or not that it was to be included on your Form 11 Return as exempted income - i.e. you’d include that yo received 10,000 rent, but that no tax was payable on it, and thus would still be part of your total income for the year which is what I assume SW cares about and not how much taxable income you have.


#39

I had the exact same thought. To my knowledge all income is reckonable for social welfare purposes and so it should be because most social welfare benefits are means tested therefore you have to pass a means test to qualify.

This whole debate is very depressing I think. Irish people constantly complain about tax evasion but also complain when revenue actually do their job and try to ensure that tax is paid on all income. There is a perfect example of this in the letters section of today’s Irish times
(irishtimes.com/opinion/lette … -1.2314726) from a ‘tax compliant PAYE worker’ who thinks that Air B&B hosts shouldn’t be taxed. Well I have news for you tax compliant PAYE worker, less taxes for them means more taxes for you. It is as simple as that.


#40

Yes, I believe that it had to be declared - but let’s say that someone is receiving 12k a year from Airbnb - that’s 230 a week, on top of 188 - which is 21k a year - is it really possible that they would pay no tax on all of this income and receive almost half from the state?