All Your Organ Are Belong to Us


#28

It’s just meat. I’d probably draw the line at necrophilia using the corpses of my children, but that’s about it. For my own body anything goes.


#29

@Eschatologist
At least you have some standards, right?
:unamused:


#30

:laughing: :laughing:
Wait, I’m out of breath, is there a doctor in the house?
:laughing:


#31

If it’s just meat why would you object to any form of necrophilia?

It sounds like you’d require Jimmy Saville to have obtained a form of consent prior to him entering the mortuary…which based on your above statement likening the dead to ‘meat’ would be both inconsistent and hypocritical on your part.

You sure this isn’t just you raising the standard detached pseudo-intellectual ‘progressive goes here’ banner for the benefit of like minded sentient slabs of meat?


#32

Leaving aside the fact that we’re now discussing necrophilia on a thread about organ donation, I’m not saying necrophilia is right, I’m just saying I don’t care about what happens to my corpse, including wrong things, and I’m prepared to defend my not giving a shit to extreme levels in the same way that you’re prepared to defend your giving a shit to extreme levels, including the rather perverse case where you do care but can’t be bothered to opt out.

Is this a libertarian thing? It’s not rooted in any mainstream religion as far as I know.

Will you be opting out?


#33

I’ve suggested that the ethical approach would be for people to opt in rather than be required to opt out.

I’ve also suggested that this would be consistent with current legal trends around the principle of consent generally.

I’m at a loss as to why you or anyone else would oppose such a stance…or at least I was up to the point you introduced the meat/necrophilia aspects.


#34

You still haven’t answered my question. Will you be opting out?


#35

I don’t think that’s accurate.

Property implies the state has the right to do with your body what it pleases.

There are a few situations (criminal investigations, infectious disease) where the state can take ownership of your body. But otherwise your family has the right to take posession of it for disposal in a set of highly restricted ways.


#36

Weak argument from the permanently outraged. Unwanted sex is called rape, it’s not an opt in or out situation is it.


#37

I am very uncomfortable with being expected to opt out of this. Opt in appears to me to be the only ethical way to approach organ donation.

I agree with the analogy to marital rape - consent was implied by way of the marriage contract. That was wrong and was found to be wrong. Here, consent is implied by way of what…being alive? Holding an Irish passport? Dying in an Irish hospital?

The Irish state already has form when it comes to (lack of) consent in this regard. How about when Crumlin was selling brain tissue to pharmaceutical companies?

rte.ie/news/2000/0209/5513-organs/

I am happy for my organs to be donated when I no longer need them, but I am not happy not to have ownership of them. For this reason, I intend to look into opting out.

The feeling of loss of control is very difficult for some patients. I find that this exacerbates that feeling.


#38

Are you really incapable of grasping that the principle of consent may apply to more than one aspect of human endeavour/life generally?

And that, generally, our legal system aspires toward the maintenance of consistency in its application of such principles across the board?

As stated previously my position is as follows

You’re free to label it a position grounded in ‘outrage’.

I disagree.


#39

I’ll tentatively give this a thumbs up.

My issue with a lot of this type of opt-out legislation is most people’s ignorance of it’s existence at all until it is too late. It has happened before with the likes of the Cohabitants Act. In the case of this Act too I suspect it has likely done more good than bad (without basing that on any intrinsic evidence). However, there have certainly been cases where some ex-partners who can only be described as the leeching type have done quite well out of it. People being aware of its existence may still not mean they will opt-out however as it could certainly be seen a vote of no-confidence in a relationships future by one of the partners.

Is this sort of blanket legislation covered in school? I know it certainly wasn’t when I was in the system.

Back to main topic as I’m not familiar with the industry but is there a divide between Private and Public donations? Could Health Insurance providers, in the future, feasibly provide their own opt-in schemes as part of their contracts, whereby signing up to that you are then opting out of the state scheme? I’m no fan of the HSE and can almost already imagine fridges of organs going to waste and rotting due to some bureaucratic cock up.


#40

I’ve no problem with this.
When you’re dead, you’re dead.
Hopefully going to save a huge amount of lives.


#41

It probably won’t have a huge impact. There are a lot less car crashes, crashes don’t kill people like they used to.

So you don’t have a ready supply of otherwise healthy organs in bodies that are otherwise beyond repair.

We really need to have a discussion about a regulated market for trade in kidneys, but that is for another day. :smiley:


#42

That really is the problem with much safer cars.
And car safety is going to get even better with autonomous driving.

All being said, I reckon within the next 15 years we’ll be growing our own replacement organs (and pretty much every other body part) from scratch.
Transplanting from another body, along with all the rejection issues it brings, will be viewed as practically medieval.


#43

Ah, there’s always a good supply of motorcyclists to rely on, although they’re all a bit middle aged these days.


#44

Yea the motorcyclists are the main source of these.

It reminds me, back in the day when I was coattailing a Consultant in Beaumont who had just broken the bad news to a lady that she wasn’t the compatible recipient of a kidney. He consoled her by pointing out the window and saying “it’s a wet night so you might still get lucky”


#45

The RSA would seem to indicate otherwise…

As an aside, imho the driving license should have had an organ donation option integrated into its design.


#46

A donor must be brain dead. The ideal donor is brain dead with no other injuries.
No good if the patient is dead on the spot or has suffered severe heart/lung injuries which means that these organs are not transplantable.
Motercyclists who don’t wear a helmet are overrepresented in the donor pool.
The other main source is severe intracranial haemorrage


#47

There were a load of scramblers delivered by Santie this year so this will probably help the donor figures for the next few years.