amgen carrigtwohill co cork

Huge Chemical plant was being built in East Cork, as you probably know the “opening” has been delayed til 2012. Heard today from a usually reliable source that it will not be built.
TIme will tell but I have a few friends in that part of the world who were counting on the 1100 jobs at peak production to drive up house prices
Also talking to relations in Pfizers and as of now no buyer on the horizon. There as been a very slow drift of those leaving, sacrificing their redundancy on the basis of getting a job

Normally discussed in [*this thread * (https://thepropertypin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516), Discostu, a chara.

Mo náire, níl mé comh cliste is a bhí mé fado.tá sé go hiontach roinnt gaeilge a chloisint nó a léamh ar an PIN

Ná bí buartha, a chara. Is deas an rud é píosa beag Gaeilge a chloisteáil gan amhras.

Beir bua.

Johnny.

An bhfuil cead agam dul go dti an leithris??? :smiley:

“An t-aoi gan fáilte roimhe” - The Unwelcome Guest! :smiley:

This from the Location secton of Ask About Money
Originally Posted by Joe Nonety
They announced today that it won’t be going ahead in the forseeable future and a large number of staff have been left go.
GOt this from one of the lads let go

Yet another chapter in the tragi-comedy of the Celtic Tiger epic.

All of the “high value” multinational manufacturing (Intel, Dell, etc) that takes place here is in varying degrees of threat. Our own export sector (CRH, Kingspan, etc) is static in growth, miniscule and also under threat. The rest of our economy consists of consumer spending and the services sector.

It’s terrifying.

It is. And nobody’s got the guts to come out and say that the reason we’re having these problems is rooted in the property market and the Irish obsession with bricks and mortar.

Dead Right Childofman - but the problem there is that the vast vast majority of opinion makers , politicians and the financial class (the 45-65 age group) have made serious investments (both financial and professional) into the whole property gig here ( some honourable exceptions aside) and the last thing they care about is the export sector )primarily because like the vast majority of their age group they have seen their property and salaries rise without having to do a tap for it - productivity is an alien word for many in this country.

Exports might have been the backbone of the celtic tiger - but it has been fuelled,run and managed mainly by Americans, Irish expats who have returned home and now EU migrants - the natives are all working on building sites , making easy money selling inherited land or working in the civil service. Until the revenues from our export industry decline to such a degree that increased taxation will be required to cover the increasing cost of our bloated and dysfunctional public sector - you won’t hear a peep of protest out of our “shakers and movers” - and the really scary thing is that whatever political grouping of the day has their hands on the levers of power - they will borrow and borrow to keep the party going rather than admit that the show is over , we’re up shit creek without a competitive paddle and before you know we’re back to 1981 again - this time with a far larger and more multicultural population - We’ll see the true meaning of cead mile failte then - thats what worries me!

The Celtic Tiger was not built upon exports.

It was built upon being a corporation tax haven and the last low wage economy within the EU15.

I’m not sure if the use of the word ‘haven’ is appropriate - however, in Italy they did consider putting Ireland on their ‘black-list’ of tax haven countries!

TUG is completely spot on here - 12.5% CT is what has driven this economy and continues to do so (although Eastern EU countries adopting similar and lower CT rates will undermine this). Also, labours costs here are no longer low and the positive effect in the P&L that was there in the early 90s is now gone. But make no mistake it is low CT that’s underpinning this economy - anybody who says otherwise such as how wonderful a workforce we are and how highly educated we are is simply badly informed!

I’d suggest ‘haven’ is the correct word. After all, the corporation tax rate was a winner because it allowed the US companies to repatriate profits and transfer price their way into the EU market.

If that’s not a ‘haven’ I don’t know what is! :wink:

I have been following this thread for a bit and whilst I am in agreement with most of what has been stated here, particularly with the general consensus both expressed and implied that this country is on a downward spiral and that this spiral has been caused and cheerleaded by a cohort of people whom frankly could’nt give a toss about anything else but their own selfish greed. This whole property scam has collectively been foisted on us by those whom were supposed to be leading us as a nation towards a more prosperous and sustainable future and the usual V.I.'s “You know who they are!”

But you know the really sad thing is that those people that gained most from the boom will be the least affected from the mess that is beginning to unfold before our eyes. Granted that the contributors to this site and people like myself have been telling people for years that this would be the end result of the madness, but it doesn’t make it any easier to watch those consequenses that were predicted being be played out. The frightening thing about the difficulties now faced by the country is that no job is safe and that includes many in the public service as the Govt will drop many faster than a hot spud if/when the multinationals start to gather up the wagons in a big way (sooner than many think I suspect as the American economy has tanked since last year but the effects won’t fully be felt until later this year)

I do however differ with dicostu on something regarding the Amgen announcement. I differ because as someone whom works within the particular branch of the pharmaceutical industry that Amgen is involved, I have some off the cuff information that might interest you. Firstly with respect, amgen are a biotechnology company and not a chemical company. This is significant because biotechnology being in many ways in it’s infancy, is by no means dead in the water in ireland because of the extremely high value of these products and the fact that the processes to produce biopharmaceuticals is significantly more complicated and difficult than in the chemical/API industry. (API: active pharmaceutical ingredients like those produced by pfizer) We are as a nation one of a number world centres of excellence in producing pharmaceuticals and generate significant economies of scale for the pharmaceutical industry through good access to highly qualified and very experienced people. Moreover our climate and access to large quantities of clean freshwater is a big plus for for pharma and biotech companies due to their requirements for huge amounts of clean water and utilities.

Secondly the announcement at amgen was because of a drug that was due to be produced at the carrigtwohill facility and was in clinical trials in america, caused a number of deaths and has been withdrawn from trials pending further investigation, so while admittedly it is a worrying time regarding this project, I know from a number of people hired for the carrigtwohill plant that have been given the option of going to America or puerto rico(US) for two years or if they wish find alternative employment with a juicy payoff. There is a lot of scaremongering at the moment regarding this plant because of what’s going on at pfizer but I am not convinced just yet that amgen will pull out completely. Even Pfizer have been eyeing up ireland as a possible location for a biotech plant in spite of whats going on with their plant closures. I do however expect to see more closures of API plants because of the loss of patents on many chemical type products produced here. I suspect the flight will be to India and the East to reduce costs on products in the decline stage of their product life cycles. I also agree that the economy is heading for choppy waters but I think we need to recognise that bad as it may get we still have a lot to offer multinationals particularly in very high end manufacturing and once the dust settles from the whole property debackle and things calm down in a few years we might be attractive to them again.

Hi JobJack I have no involvement with Amgem my knowledge comes from those who live in the area and had euro signs in their eyes at the prospect of selling houses/sites. I really hope your correct in all you say.
I am old enough to remember some of the various collapses Cork has seen down through the years, Gouldling, Dunlops, Fords, and I think from my friends in Pfizers that whilst it won’t be a total shutdown, they are already seeing a slow but steady drift of staff out of their plant. Hopefully they will find a buyer I have a few mates down there, but if they do they will not be employing the same number of staff.
History teaches us many things, Cork was once the centre of excellence for butter and meat, it was the main depot for the British navy, it was once one of the stop off points for Liners. It was once famous for its garment manufacturing. Sunbeam and the Ideal Weatherproof supplied Britain with high grade garments during the war.
All these things are now gone. either the technology changed or they moved to a cheaper location.
And as they say the more things change the more they stay the same

Hi Dicostu, Apologies for not getting back to you until now but I was off the radar for a few weeks.(Sun, sand and sangria! :smiley:)

I agree with your point that things constantly change and evolve and that the reasons for change are sometimes due to technology and or costs. This was exactly my point when I stated that the API industry that pfizer is involved in now faces serious challenges in Ireland. I support your statement that the more things change the more they stay the same.
I also think the use of the Fords example is a very apt comparison to Pfizer as it shows that some people don’t learn from the mistakes of the past.

What I am referring to here is that many people in Fords and pfizer thought they had a job for life and many people took that for granted and had a superior and down right arrogant attitude to match that supposition. I know quite a bit about pfizer having had family there myself and whilst I dislike seeing people loosing their jobs, frankly the attitudes of many down there regarding change would be laughable if it were not so serious. Cast your mind back to a number of years ago when there was a strike at the main plant in ringaskiddy. This was caused because new improved equipment was commissioned on the plant and the operators wanted more money for using it. Considering that the pfizer workers are among the best paid, in an industry that always payed well above the industrial average, to me that smacked of people thinking they could’nt be done without. Similarly though I must emphasise on a much greater scale! the same type of sentiment permeated Fords Cork plant because from what I have been told about that plant, almost every other week there was a down of tools for something or other. As they say; “Pride cometh before the fall.”

That quote could also be used when referring to the madness that has become the property market in Ireland and personally whilst I will be very dissapointed *if Amgen does pull out completely I will shed no tears for the specuvestors and other greedy bstards that thought they were going to make a financial killing through the Carrigtwohill facility start up if they loose their shirts in the process. I like most of the posters to the Pin have had enough of these people ruining our nations competitiveness and this was the thrust of my initial post. It is precicely because of these people that we now find ourselves staring into the abyss.

Regards!

Hi Joblack hope you had a good holiday, no argument with what you said, like yourself I really hope that Amgem goes ahead I have kids who will be leaving college if and when it opens. My father worked in Dunlops and he had some scary stories also about work practices.
FLexibility is oft quoted and rarely implemented

Regards and keep up the suntan

Regarding Amgen…they cancelled the structural steel order last week…all of it. I know,because I work in that section of the construction industry.I would be extremely surprised if Amgen goes ahead. Intel are also commencing construction on a new $2.5Billion green field site in north west China later this year (Fab 68)…so no expansions for Leixlip. They are currently in the middle of construction of their latest Fab in Israel.Dell,also one of the biggest employers in Ireland are currently building a 1million square ft plant in Poland,due for completion next year…watch this space.

That frightening.