Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, CCCTB


Red Ink Red Ink!!!

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Wasnt that a NAMA property?

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Jesus, so it sold for €600M 2.5 years ago by NAMA and now whole thing is worth £9 billion ?

Why are the papers here so quiet? this should be a scandal, they went on about the Northern Ireland portfolio while this seems much much bigger story.


It’s an obvious 2-finger salute to the EU.
Wonder what kind of ‘sweetheart deal’ they got from Downing Street ? :angry:


Memory hole
nobody will ever remember that the NAMA vaults had as iconic and valuable a property as Battersea Power Station (“sure that was all ghost estates, hotels, and shite”), nor that its sale was so badly mismanaged.


The £9bn figure is a post devolment valuation (i.e. What it might be worth a few years down the road after a couple of billion spent building out the project) with a site value of €600m (i.e. What they paid 2 years ago).


The Long Term Economic Value, some might say!


Well, that depends on how much of a bubble you think London is in. For a site with an “it’s a bubble” outlook, some posters are quite hard on NAMA for doing what NAMA was designed to do.


NAMA was supposed to minimize cost to the tax payer.
Selling an asset dramatically under what it was even valued at, at that time, does not achieve that.

It just seems that NAMA is doing what a certain cohort wanted it to do:

  • keep the legal firms busy undoing each others previous boom-era contracts
  • selling on assets quickly in order to appear to be giving the state value
  • making sure some developers got shafted while other developers & funds were given incredibly good deals on asset disposal & purchase.

That is what seems to have happened from the outside - only time will tell if it’s true. And by then it’ll be too late to do anything about it. But the drip feed of info out of some NAMA deals does not inspire confidence.

I wish it were different.


No, that may be a stated aim, but it is not what NAMA is for.
NAMA’s purpose is to bail out the borrowers whose loans NAMA took on at well below LTEV. Because NAMA paid so little for the loans, they could be ‘satisfied’ easily. NAMA was designed to make a profit, at the cost of the recapitalisation of the banks - a separate process.
NAMA was also designed to bail out the squirearchy and make them forever grateful to FF.
Most have quietly settled; only a few eejits decided to fight them.
A secondary function of NAMA was to put a floor under prices by restricting supply.

The minimise cost to taxpayer onlly comes on NAMA terms. There’s nothing about healthy banks, retaining free banking, low-cost finance providing credit for business expansion, none of that. None of it is in NAMA’s remit.

The selling price of loans is a complete sideshow.


No argument from me there as to what has actually been done.
Ah, Ireland - how I love that the stated aim is never the actual intention.

Much like the mooted FTB grant/rebate that is on the way.
Stated Aim: to help the FTBers “get on the ladder” and overcome our own CBs rules.
Actual Intention: Money straight to developers through almost instantaneous new build price increases. What could possibly go wrong???

…other than actually further hurting/leveraging the very people it’s supposed to help by increasing all of their budgets, and hurting anyone competing with them in the market. It’s almost too perfect.



At this stage, you have to wonder if it is the mandarins rather than the politicians. Maybe we are looking for the wrong ‘bought and paid for’ people?


Irish Revenue distances themselves from Tim Cook’s tax avoidance scheme

IRISH TIMES: Revenue chairman disputes Apple claims of 2% tax deal

Many years ago Denis Casey, then CEO of Irish Permanent plc, was told to put on the ‘Green Jersey’, and, to his ultimate complete downfall (not undeserved), did so with both hands.

When Denis went to show the Irish Courts the evidence that he was told to do this, none seemed available. Nobody could remember telling him. They might have enquired as to whether he (a) wore jerseys, and (b) what his favourite colour was. But there is no evidence that he was ever told (or even asked) to do so. Denis was isolated and nailed.

Tim Cook - whom the Irish Revenue now imply lied to a US Senate Enquiry (quite a serious offence) - should sent his lawyers to speak with Denis Casey (in his jail cell). He should then take a long hard look at the factual evidence that he has regarding what we was told (vs. what he thinks he was told). He might find the same disconnect that Denis found.


After being labelled a “Tax Haven” by the 9th largest economy, Taoiseach unveils new strategy: NO LOOSE TALK

In light of this:

IRISH TIMES: Commission may examine 300 more Irish tax rulings

And this:

TAX JUSTICE NETWORK: Now Brazil puts Ireland on its tax haven blacklist

The Taoiseach’s new strategy is this:

IRISH INDEPENDENT: Kenny warns continued 'loose talk on taxation is damaging our country’

People of Ireland, your Tax Haven … is … at War


Gubbernment might as well have announced:
“Proles! …know your place!”


Edna’s comments are circling the same dirty neighbourhood as the Bertmeister’s: “Stop talking down the economy.”

…because yeah, THAT’S what f#cked the economy & housing market in mid-noughties… XX

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Microsoft France paid a small commission.
Microsoft Ireland take the profit tax or near tax free.


Now it gets serious…

IRISH TIMES: New plan for Europe-wide corporate tax base unveiled

Now with the Brits gone, it is just Ireland and Luxembourg that max out on the IP MNC (a.k.a. Knowledge Box) tax scam (Dutch focus on interest carry scams). This is serious. VERY SERIOUS.

Anybody have have relations living in Wallonia who could help us in stonewalling the EU Commission?

I forgot, the Wallonian financial system is not dependent on the ECB for covering its day-to-day liquidity shortfall? Nor does the Central Bank in Belgium have a €30bn ECB free carry on-demand loan on its books. Hmmm.