ATM Nation


#1

I’m sick of these FG gobshites taking up the FF clarion call and saying defaulting/not bailing out the banks would means the ATMs would stop working.

Can anyone explain to me how this is possible?
Is there a special “kill switch” in the DoF for ATMs?
Should we designate ATMs as part of our critical infrastructure?


#2

Central Bank thread?

If we default, we’re essentially giving Europe the two fingers. Europe might then decide if we’re not going to play nice, they won’t either. If they withdrew emergency “liquidity” support, it could be a case that our banks would run out of money overnight as everyone tried to rush out of the pool at once. In that scenario, we would definitely be going Argentinian and almost certainly be forced out of the Eurozone.

I think it’s important to distinguish that it’s no longer the Irish State that are providing the bank guarantee, it’s Europe.


#3

Exactly, and this is why AIB very nearly went under right before the initial guarantee was announced in 2008. Remember, there was no cash for trash mechanism at that point. When the bank ran out of money, either it (and every other bank) was going under, or the Irish state itself was going to have to introduce liquidity measures. Either scenario would have been a calamity. I can understand why Lenihan acted the way he did.


#4

Moved.

If we default but stay in the Euro, then it’s all about the haircut and the deficit. Nothing to do with ATMs.

If we kill the zombies, somebody’s gonna love the debt-free branch network - it’s all fucking nationalised, so it’s a two second job.

We would have to default, leave the Euro, introduce the Puntseto, convert all the debts to Puntsetos and introduce capital controls overnight to have the ATMs shut down.

Is this what the FG ministers intend?


#5

So ploughing €20Billion in to AIB is a good investment?


#6

Exactly what?
Exactly groupthink and hubris that they knew more about solvency is what it was.

My lesson from the last 3 years is that things get ridiculed and then they eventually happen.


#7

Converting the debt to Puntseto is going to make it nearly impossible to raise additional funding in the short term. I think the only way to do this would be to arrange a deal with the US or the UK in advance. A unilateral move by Ireland without the support of a large sponsor could move the country into the pariah state category, at least for one or two budget cycles.


#8

Fuck the ATM subterfuge lets expand out our sense of it all and work form the only one true source of living our living systems.

The average human needs about 2350/2600 calories a day.

However form a 1975-1981 book here is a chart of 20 countries not sure if its intended as a Top 20, interestingly Irish people seem to be very well fed back then in terms of calories. (yes I agree some calories are empty nutritionally and not worth consuming but play with me here…)

So lets say for 5 million people needing calories 365 days a year we have a total requirement of, 1,825,000,000 calorie days x 3410 Calories required per day and we have a Gross National Calorific Requirement (GNCR) which equals 6.22325E+12 or 17,050,000,000 calories required per day for the total population.

All I need now is an equally facile way of working out the Gross calorific output of this island. For the sake of making the point. I believe we already have so much calorific output that we could feed our selves many times over. Its an echo of the shelter oversupply which was rampantly obvious as we solved the housing crisis year on year out but it remained unresolved.

I’d really appreciate some of the number heads to help me out her on my very cursory back of the napkin calculation.

To conclude I see no reason to fret about some artifice of collapse and worry so. If you are willing to acknowledge the predatory nature of societies organisational form then you have won at least half the battle.


#9

Ok I found this, section on food security.

earthtrends.wri.org/country_prof … ou_372.PDF

What is not clear is what it the estimated calorific output capacity of the land is fully and properly utilised and worked. We seem ot have some imports in there as well. I guess that potatoes. You’d think we’d learn ffs :unamused:


#10

Simon Coveney, minister for Agriculture said on frontline last night that by 2020 we will be producing enough food to feed 50 million people a year. In order to survive we need food, looking good there, shelter, looking good there with all the spare houses, heat, looking good there with all the forests, and water, looking good there with all the rain we get.

The food programme on RTE on Sunday night also said we are importing 4 million chicken fillets a week.


#11

You’re not playng with me! Its an exercise to expanding peoples view of what reality you’re holding on to fear to hard my man :smiley:


#12

Food is only about 10% of our electrical energy consumption, and thats only a third of our total, so only a few % of our total energy consumption. I think people are more afraid of losing their middle class lifestyles than going hungry.


#13

Lamb is making €7/kg at the moment. 25kgs of coal is €10.80 retail in the coal yard. How much are the ESB paying for the coal they buy in bulk?


#14

the esb are paying probably a little over 1c/kWh, definitely less than 2

@ 6700 kWh per ton you’re paying 6.5 c/kwh for bagged coal. thats some rip off


#15

a man cannot live on bread alone
contrary to what yourself and pol pot would like to imagine …


#16

This is a exercise a game you couldn’t have missed the point more if you tried.


#17

Or more accurately, they are afraid of looking bad in front of friends and neighbours when they have to admit they can’t afford the bling any more…


#18

It amazes me the number of people out of work who always make sure to get their round in, pay the taxi fare home, and otherwise insist on not looking broke.

I was heading into town one evening for a few pints and wanted to take a bus (Stop right outside the door). Same guy hadn’t taken a bus in fifteen years, and despite being unemployed he ended up calling a taxi for both of us. By contrast I own a decent car, have a steady reasonably well paying job and I was the one wanting the bus.

I don’t get it, especially now with the sheer number of people out of work, you’d think the stigma of being broke would’ve lifted. Interestingly the only guy I know happy to admit to being broke is from Co. Antrim.


#19

Dunno about that - austerity is the new bling.

People have no problem saying they can’t afford things now whereas a few years ago it was almost taboo to say it.