Banking shock as 'tiny' ACC relentlessly pursues debts

independent.ie/national-news … 28768.html

Em, since we are picking up the tab at the end of the day, surely this is the best approach. I know my bro would be feeling the heat at this stage if I was paying off his credit card bill (which I wouldn’t be :smiling_imp: )

There is no emoticon for that.

Those jealous foreigners are determined to ruin our wonderful country with thier weird notions that debt should be repaid.
If they hadn’t interfered with our special miracle economy, everything would still be perfect.

Hopefully some of these ACC deals with give an early indication of the discount than NAMA should pay

Best news yet for stifling NAMA?

This type of thing, Green/FG/Labour opposition and a “concerned citizen” bringing a constitutional challenge would ensure NAMA never sees the light of day.

I wonder will the NAMA bill be referred to the Supreme Court by the President to insulate it against subsequent challenge? If not, who would have standing to challenge the Act apart from the banks and possibly developers?

As regards the rest, if the Greens were to pull out of Government post Lisbon but pre-budget then perhaps we have a chance.

I’ve been in touch with the greens, I’ve been told Senator Dan Boyle will get back to me with a response. The short version of what I said was ‘oppose NAMA’.

If I do hear anything back, I’ll post it.

Most likely a developer, who only really has the best interests of the country at heart would do it, or else a crusty like Crotty (responsible for the constitutional challenge which requires a referendum for each new EU treaty).

Would it be fair to say that the reason ACC have 33% impairments compared to the single figure impairments quoted by other banks has nothing to do with the quality of their loan book and everything to do with their honesty in reporting their losses? In which case, would it be fair to assume that the other banks which engaged in commercial and development property lending have at least 30% impairments as well?

sounds about right.
How aggressive were the other banks compared to ACC?
When did ACC get in to the lending game? Are their loans closer to “ground zero”?

They would probably have been a bit more aggressive to gain market share at a late stage of the boom (T-4 years)

More likely their dutch auditors have not been in providing consulting services as to how to get the loan book looking okay for when the audit team comes around.

a bit drunk as on holiday…but from what I heard today on the radio… examinership will mean that carroll related business’s since they have gone in to examinership will buy 100 (over 3 months)days of protection from creditors which I am thinking will mean that will give NAMA time to “kick in” and be in place by late september early october…take carrolls debts and transfer them to the tax payer from the banks like all the rest the Banks property debts

A bit drunk as well. Unemployed.

Is there any way we can delay NAMA? The longer we can forestall it. The more preposterous the valuations of the ‘long term value’ of the loans they allegedly want to purchase is.

GB Alchohol!!!..heh??..its just another case of the ordinary taxpayer bailing out the govt buddies …their developer friends!!..and there is no way of delaying that…the funny thing is that I think this is a case of “turkeys voting for Christmas” eventhough they dont realise it…in that the politicans will bail out their buddies thinking that their fat pensions and guaranteed salaries are safe…country will be broke from this action…IMF will come in slash all public salaries etc incl Govt…we elect such inept fools in this country!!!

Pressure on the Greens. If they can pull out prior to the enactment of legislation and precipitate a general election that would result in a delay longer than someone like Carroll could withstand.

Short answer.

Senator Dan Boyle: “I like being gang raped”.

The big jump in the ACC loan book was from year end 2003 to year end 2004 when the loan to customers jumped about a third from 4.4bn to 6.1bn. Following that the loan book appears to have remained pretty constant between 6 and 7bn.
accbank.ie/index.php?name=Financial+Results
Maybe someone here can enlighten us as to the average duration of a development loan but I’d imagine a lot of the money lent in 2004 came back, I’d guess it’s the money lent after that to keep up the market share. The question is who were they dealing with in order to maintain the size of the loan book and were those developers seemingly more risky than those of other banks.

irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0629/1224249723968.html
Seeing as ACC bank is linked with the major developers like every other bank, it’s hard to imagine they have a dramatically more loss-making loan book than anyone else. Maybe NAMA is an unwelcome unknown to Rabobank and they just want to get what they can and get out. They’ll bite the bullet because they can and remove the future uncertainty of levies etc.

OK, that made me laugh!

In all seriousness though, I have noticed over the past week on the 'pin a general mood of “Can NAMA be delayed?”-ness

I think we need to get organised, another HCL-like rally. The figures don’t add up, but everbody I’ve spoken to doesn’t seem to realise that, and is still under the impression we “have to do this”, versus the more sane version “we cannot afford to do this”.

I posted some figures on another thread: thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=276494#p276494, I think we need to bash them out some more, with full references. Maybe take a look at the point in other countries where the IMF turned up at the door and see what they did. The only attack that can be made against a no-to-NAMA is that it ‘needs to be done to save the economy’, so we need to show that is untrue. That going down the NAMA route will only guarantee us getting screwed (assuming we find that is true!!).

I’ll attend a rally, my SO will attend a rally… that’s two. I don’t know who organised the HCL one (I was away when that one was on), but I’ll help organise this one.