Bertie B'Stard loves the Landlord.

Fancy that. FF screwing the tax payer in favor of the VI.

TBH BB the PRTB would be f**k all use in aiding the revenue catch LL’s who are not tax compliant.Any landlord who is dodging tax will not go and register the tenancy with the PRTB as that only increases his chances of getting caught!

Luckily tenants can register their landlord with the PRTB.

Just in case the landlord somehow forgot to register :slight_smile:

The reality is somewhat different Xman!The majority of tenants have never even heard of the PRTB never mind going to the bother of registering the tenancy with them,along with the associated problems of trying to fill in the form which asks for info like the mgt companies address,ph no and company reg no,the landlords name address and pps no,the name address,ph no and company reg no of the letting agent etc.Most cannot be bothered

Maybe the government/Revenue should run a publicity campaign promoting the tax benefits to renters of having their tenancy registered with the PRTB ?

It would be a shame if any of them are missing out on their entiltlements.

Better yet, let the PRTB become a national bond agency responsible for safe keeping of all rental deposits to prevent unscrupulous landlords unfairly retaining/witholding people’s deposits when they move out.

The PRTB are turning into a joke.The agency is severely understaffed and lacking funding.There process registrations at a snails pace and deal with disputes/issues at an even slower pace.If they were to also act as a “bond agency” for deposits you would be lucky to get your deposit back within 12 mths of moving out!

if you know of someone with a number of properties for the last number of years how would you check that they are registered with the PRTB (aside from the obvious looking at the list) as I have done this and they dont appear to be listed. Could it be that the list is incomplete or needs updating?

They could well be registered and the PRTB have not got around to updating the list!I would say you are ccorrect in saying that “the list is incomplete or needs updating”!

I spoke to the Chiarman of the PRTB before they where fully up and running in about 4/5 years ago and made my feelings clear as to the amount of TAX evasion in the sector and it seems I was not wrong then.

I even spoke to a few politicos, look where that got us! No where.

This is old old old old news.

They don’t really give a fuck, its easier to screw you with Speed Cameras and stealth taxes and then give billions back to the landlords via indirect state subsidies aka RENT ALLOWANCE, which probably mostly goes into the bank accounts of An Garda TBH :unamused:

The chairman you refer to is merely a figurehead for that jokeshop they call the PRTB and is certainly a VI with his position as Head of the School of Real Estate and Construction Economics in DIT ensuring that!

They could use the interest earned from all the deposits to pay for extra staff. LL’s should not have access to their tenant’s deposit money anyway.

200,000 tenancies, say average €1,000 euro bond for each = €200 million on deposit.

5% interest on that is €10 million a year. That should be enough to pay for a few civil servants.

Problem solved !!

Of course they are, did you not read the RENT tribunal that set it up? It was a waste of taxpayers money once more and took 2 years.

They could have picked up the phone to OW and in 10 mins I would have it solved. Of course i had to call them myself but the poor guy at the PRTB knoew there was no political will.

  1. Centralised Housing Databse
  2. Landlord Liscensing System
    (simply transpose the current self financing TAXI regulators and BINGO!)

So to become a legally practicing Landlord you need,

  1. Need a TAX clearance Cert (4 months expiry from date of application)
  2. A BG check by the police (criminal record excludes you)
  3. Renew your license everyear (small fee)
  4. Register all your properties (central DB)
  5. You must display a copy of your Letting license in the Hall or by the Meters (or somewhere of note)

Open & Transparent, Self Financing, Self Regulating.

IF the Taxi industry which went from 5000 service providers to over 30000 service providers must abide by the same set of legal requirements, I can’t see why landlords could not also abide by a similar and most successful system.

Of course there are not votes in the tenant sector, or is there :wink:

I can only imagine we might see another Blue Flu :unamused:

He he see my point below.
I made that point to the in the PRTB years ago.
ITs a no brainer FFS.

I thought Licensing fees where the most equitable.

92,000 landlords x 500 annual license fee renewal = €46 million


€5000 initial license application payment on foot of other criteria (tax clerence , garda check etc…)

IF this had of been charged we’d have maybe €460 million in the pot + annual renewal fees.

The STATE policy or lack of serious social housing policy obligation to then CORRECTLY and equitably REGULATE the PRIVATE sector in absence of any other housing solution by the state.

*To Note it costs €6390 to license a Taxi for the first time - … ersion.pdf.

If your;e not buying it the arguement, then:

IMAGINE an unregulated TAXI Industry
No fixed charges. No Rules, No Plate Numbers, No Ranks and so on…

Well, thats basically whats been going on in the rental sectors for 70 odd years.

ANyone for a slice of the National Emergency? You can make a fortune! :smiling_imp:

TOm Dunne is the chairman now, he os not the person I spoke to. He is gone. The original chairman had Labour connections if I remember correctly.

I’ll be giving my landlord a hansome sum of around thirty grand this year, for this I’ll get 700 quid tax credit. When I go to apply for the credit he’ll no doubt give me the runaround, but I’ll get his PPS number because it’s my 700 quid.
You need to submit the LLs PPS number in order to get the credit, but most people don’t apply for it due to reasons such as fear of eviction, the credit being feck all, not knowing it exists.

So if revenue were serious they would not be looking for the PRTBs list but instead hastling Cowen for a decent tax credit maybe 8-12k and an advertising campaign.

I think that the licencing model suggested by OW would be the way to go, though I think the fee schedule is a bit excessive.

Maybe divide the amounts mentioned by 10, there’s no need to build in a disincentive to becoming a landlord or incentivise further staying outside of the law. The gain to the state would be in having most landlords tax compliant as opposed to burdening them with a excessive extra cost, that I’d imagine most would look to pass on to their tenants.

I don’t think you do any more

With all due respect Poc LLs have no incentive to pay registration or tax or anything else on a voluntary basis and that is the problem. These guys have gotten away for so long avoiding tax (note I said avoiding not evading;cough which is perfectly legal;cough cough).

There are a number of organisations that LLs can join and get information on being compliant, rents etc etc and some do join but most avoid like the plague because these organisations will highlight LLs obligations as well as the deficiences in their property, management of that and tenants rights etc.

So like most Irish institutions that cost money and are to some degree voluntary they dont work, LLs need to be legally obligated into coughing up the dough otherwise its a non starter.

I wasn’t suggesting a voluntary basis, as I read the original OW post, it would be a legal requirement to be licenced to be a landlord. I suggested that the fee schedule that was proposed was too high.

If it costs a landlord €5k to register, instead of €500, straight away he’s got 4,500 reasons to try remain unregistered, in spite of it being illegal.

IMO I would reckon a lot of LLs don’t pay tax. Why? Cause if you become a LL and you don’t register from day 1 then you are building up a debt to the tax office. This means a lot of people would rather keep the head down and hope for the best rather than forking out a lump sum. Lets face it most LLs are abosolute amatures and wouldn’t even know where to start even if they wanted to become compliant.
It is not a tennable position though. The government will at some time come looking for the money due to lack of funds and this lack of funds is just around the corner. When they do, how hard will it be to get tennats to spill the beans? I would say 99.999% of tenants would be happy to shop the LL. They also just have to check ownership of homes and pay a visit or send a letter entitled “To the tennents”…

Unfortunately for the LL all this shit is gonna hit the fan at the same time. Serious shortfalls in rent, negative equity and the taxman hammering on their door looking for years in tax. Don’t forget the penalties for non payment and the interest rate they charge on the money that should have gone to pay Berties 300,000 Euros salary. We may even see a mass exodus of non tax compliant LLs from the country. Don’t go the UK though, you’ll be sent back as the UK have agreements in place.