Bertie V Enda

Did I hear correctly when Bertie said “290,000” now employed in construction. And said that people in construction would be voting for FF?
Was it me or did it come across as if construction was the jewel in the crown when he said that Fianna Fail built up the construction industry?


His answering of the planning commuting issue was appalling He began by taking credit for moving people out of ore cities! He was confusing de-centralization with everything else, pure FUDGE. Bertie always comes across as techyNo fun of either but Enda will come out as calm & level headed.

Bertie taking credit for our over-reliance on the soon-to-be-dead construction industry was priceless.

He was very proud wasn’t he? I almost expected him to say that “soon everyone can have jobs building houses!”.

To be fair, if it was Kenny on the other side he’d probably have said the same thing, politicians in this country are gormless eejits.

Thats correct.I don’t think Enda pressurised Bertie hard enough on our over reliance on construction,He had a chance to go for the jugular but didn’t take it.
Bertie apparantly thinks it’s great that 290k are employed in construction :frowning: :frowning: Unbelievable.
He must expect the 13% foreign construction workers to vote for him as well - God bless their foreign souls :open_mouth:

Enda’s in experience as a debater showed as Bertie cleverly steered him away from sticky questions esp. about stamp duty.

All things considered though I thought Enda did ok.

I’ll tell ya what it just struck me, the thing that was missing. Yeah did you notice it?
Where was the campaign slogan “now, the next steps”.

Bertie didn’t stick to any one line, he didn’t seem to have a message. He didn’t seem to be there to tell us anything new. Do you see what I am getting at. We know who he is, we know what office he holds (we’d love to know all about the Bank OF Bertie, St Lukes branch) in but did the people watching tonight learn anything about the future according to FF. I know I didn’t.

FF don’t really have a vision, they have no hook, no plan. There was nothing to point to and say yes that way, thats the way (or not as the case may be). It was actually “more of the same”. Thats all they have going for them. Now who’s excited by “more of the same”

Enda Kenny referred to the contract with the people, that was his message and at least he stuck to it ad nauseam 9whateever its intrinsic vlaue may turn out to be). I think it gave the viewer & listener a structure, a foundation associate other alternative govenrmnet ideas, for the future and the message of change.

Where as the Bertie sounded like a FF stooge rolled out to take the flak, he was there to answer questions.

Ahern just seemed backward, constantly looking back in his references. It does not speak about confidence. There was a lack of conviciton 7 confidence passion and vision. They’ve really gone for the track record crap yet the posters herald the next setps? What are the next steps. When people take “the necessary steps”, uh, that can be very sinister. So what are these steps FF take about.

The building comment was cringful, I think that may activate a few dusty logic switches or as the subliminal tell to the elctorate as to the truth of who & how FF are what they are, those who have ears and those that have eyes. Very negative moment for Bertie.

While OW is an openly loathful of FF I am no FG fan, but I reckon they have it in the bag, who? Why FG, LB & The Greens (as for Sinn Fein, well why not make it a foursome :wink: )

Imagine the PDs only end up with 1 seat, do you think McFool would be able to hack it on his own in opp with a very grouchy FF?

Its obvious Bertie has become FF biggest liability. He should have handed over to Biffo, who as new blood in terms of leadership would have brought fresh energy to the party. Whats happened to the Duce of Drumcondra, he just seems to be lacking anything, oh perhaps O am making the mistake that he ever had something to offer in the first place.

In the spirit of reaching out & providing alternative views & maybe more coal face info I have petitoned the good nature of the lovely ladies over on WOL for a spot of debate & some therapy for Whizzbang … 1&start=45

Well for the sake of debate, let me disagree :slight_smile:

Bertie won that debate by a good margin. He had better command of facts and figures; he remained calm under difficult questioning. He directly challenged points in Enda’s ‘contract’ and came out sounding the more convincing.

Some specifics:

  • Bertie repeatedly asked Enda if he was going to fund the 2300 new hospital beds by cutting the budget for cancer treatment. By avoiding answering each time and instead replying “We’re going to have priorities” - he may as well have just said yes.

  • Bertie pointed out how Jim O’Keeffe (FG justice spokesman) had himself said crime figures were down; Enda’s reply was that Jim didn’t have the figures to hand when he said that (!) Even Miriam didn’t let him away with that - it wasn’t a ringing endorsement of a FG cabinet.

  • Enda said he was promising 2,000 more gardai; Bertie pointed out they had only budgeted for 1000 more than are already in training, and that these 1000 will graduate regardless of who the next government is. “So which is it, 1000 or 2000?” Enda fluffed around.

  • Bertie relied on country-wide statistics and verifiable achievements over the last 10 years, while Enda used emotive examples of specific people on waiting lists and drugs on “every landing” in a prison. It sounded pretty woolly.

  • Bertie forced Enda into a corner on PRSI, pointing out how the main beneficiaries would be the top 5% of earners. Bertie said “If that’s your choice, very well, but it’s unjust and inequitable” and Enda unbelievably replied “Yes it is my choice.” I’m sure that’s not what he meant, but Bertie pounced on it and “verified” it a few more times.

Yes, Bertie seemed proud of the numbers in construction. What percentage of the population, would you say, believe 290,000 working in construction is a bad thing?

Rather like the election, the debate was Bertie’s to lose. He didn’t. I’m not saying he can or will win the election, but he won the night.

And this is relevant to Bertie and/or Enda how? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m on a program…

Agreed,politicians will always tell the electorate what they want to hear,bad news does’nt win votes.
Miriam did push Bertie on what would happen in a down turn if construction workers were let go?Berties answer? The knowledge economy would take over.
I’m still waiting for a detailed description of the mechanics that are in place or will be put in place that will turn bricklayers into scientists overnight,its a joke.
All the arguaments and discussions I’ve so far heard are nothing more than soundbites and one liners, how electorates can be swayed by that amazes me and says more about the electorate than anything else.

A wider debate pitching one forum against another perhpas :wink:

Yea I would say Enda won it but I am talking about the subtle tells. Of Betie had a grasp of teh figures, but he’s been at it for 10 years. He just didn bring anyting to the debate, he didn’t tell us, maube he’s a details man, I didn’t hear much vision meself. That was my main point.

The same was said about Bruton, he won but in the End Bertie won the election. So historically it might not bode well for Bertie.

Just look at FG & LAb they are doing there best not to panic the electorate while you have the uber negative PD telling us we are doomed if we elect anyone else (thats mature stuff lads) and then FF aren’t much better.

Can you not see their tack, they are trying to look calm and collected, Biffo tried this at the start especially with SD (I will igve him that credit) but Bertie undermined him and fucked it all, up now Cowen is resorting to bawling.