Britain leaving the European Union.


#4573

There was a Labour MP interviewed on Sky News this evening who was still trotting out the “EU needs us to buy their cars” line. He thinks May got a lousy deal and the UK just needs to march back over to Brussels and threaten to leave without a deal if they don’t what they want.
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#4574

#4575

So much for 'they are mad for herring ’ agreement
As a number of informed commentators have points out its near impossible for the UK to get to a Norway plus from their current position.
They would have to go back in time and approach the EEA/EFTA countries and engage in detailed discussions to see if was even possible. But the thicko Brexiteers still think its easy to leave the EU and negotiate a FTA. Maybe they should learn to walk before they can run


#4576

British quickly running into a dead end full of stinky poo, better known as Brexit.


#4577

Jeffrey Donaldson DUP on the Pat Kenny show this morning was still using the ‘car buying’ line


#4578

Priti Patel says the threat of starvation in Ireland should be used as leverage to go back to Brussels.

Do millions have to starve in Britain for them to finally understand how millions starved in Ireland under direct London rule?


#4579

Even for a Tory politician, I didn’t think a statement could be possibly true. I had to Google it to make sure.

In the real world though, Ireland is the 2nd most food secure country in the world.


#4580

It’s gormless for sure, but it is the same uninterrupted Westminster sovereignty that induced starvation in Ireland that prosecutes Brexit now. Phil Hogan’s reply cuts to the heart of it.

irishtimes.com/business/eco … -1.3723610


#4581

If all trade was stopped with brexit its the brits that would starve. But hey, thats their call. We will both freeze though. maybe we can have our own Norway plus plus plus slap dash


#4582

I too didn’t believe that was the substance of it, but here it is - I looked for for a source that I though wouldn’t be a mouthpiece for some view or other, initially picking truckerworld.uk/2018/12/priti-p … -backstop/, but settling on MSN (somebody has to read it sometime):
msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/p … ar-BBQDd8z


#4583

BBC podcast
Will Brexit lead to the pulling apart of countries within the European Union?
27 minutes of interesting debate on what’s next for Europe with speakers from Warsaw and Brussels.

bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswk10


#4584

The optics that I get from this is that there is a possible danger to food security in Ireland.
The Irish government will have no objection to letting Irish people and small businesses suffer because we do live in a time here in Ireland Inc where the lines in government management has been to DO AS YOUR TOLD


#4585

The conspiracisy theorists are coming out of the woodwork…


#4586

No. There’s no conspiracy here.
This is all business as usual for 'The Great and The Good" of Irish Government.
They follow the line set by higher authority.
They can disagree for a while to temper and manipulate public mood but then they toe the line, if necessary changing laws to suit.
Many real examples of same in recent years.

Much as though we were/are an outpost of Britain, we are and will remain an even greater outpost of Europe.


#4587

So Ireland is better off going out on its own trading with Iceland then ?

Instead of mumbling tell us how you can make Ireland more independent and prosperous than it is already ?

Make an effort …Details…Specifics.


#4588

Here’s an interesting one for you,

How we will be discussing the similarities between the break up of the soviet union in December 1991 and the break up of the EU in (pick a date in the next 3 - 5 years).
Remember how solid the SU looked in 1985, it was expected to last for decades.


#4589

I think you (and others) are missing much of the point of what’s brewing right across Europe at this stage. Discussion encompassing GDP and figures and growth projections simply won’t cut it anymore.

In the case of Ireland, when we were ‘poorer’ people could generally afford their own homes close to extended family networks (think affordable childcare), usually on one income. In much of the country people could leave their doors unlocked. Suicide was uncommon and most people spoke the same language as their neighbors. Kids generally wandered freely and safely wherever they wanted. Further, like it or loathe it, there was a spiritual aspect to life that provided many/most people with a sense of meaning as well as a collective identity…something that crass materialism of either a right or left variety quite clearly does not.

Undoubtedly some people’s lives were worse, especially those whose lifestyles or life choices caused them to fall beyond the narrower/stricter social mores of the day. However, I’d guess that much of the discontent we are witnessing currently is borne of a sense that people’s basic quality of life, despite material and technological advances, has quite simply deteriorated…probably moreso in other European states than in Ireland thus far, but its definitely in the post.

In essence, modernity itself appears to be in the dock and I’m guessing that requests or demands to identify a materialist agenda that may be negotiated and compromised around simply doesn’t even begin to address what is a reaction to a broad cultural malaise that has been half a century in the making.


#4590

The former was held together by force, the latter is a voluntary union, as exemplified by a member leaving.

It’s not our fault the UKs exit is a shambles. They simply didn’t have a plan for leaving before they pulled the trigger on what I believe will instigate the demerging of the UK.

Interestingly the UK’s exit actually tips the EU more in favour of the smaller nations of the union.


#4591

The current (soon to be rejected) Brexit deal has a “Hotel California” clause in it, so the union isn’t that voluntary.
The second Brexit deal will need some real imagination if it is going to be accepted.


#4592

Let’s be clear the UK can leave the EU, pay no further funds to the EU, not guarantee the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK and erect a border with Ireland if it wants to. However, there are anticipated deleterious consequences to that choice and accordingly the current UK Government has chosen not to pursue it.

In the case of the UK’s land border with Ireland, the UK Government has committed to leaving it without new infrastructure.

The Withdrawal Agreement allows for no border infrastructure if
a) there is a future trade deal sufficient to obviate it, or
b) there is a technological solution, or
c) Northern Ireland remains in the requisite parts of the Single Market and Customs Union required to obviate a border.

The UK requested, and the EU acquiesced with certain caveats, that the entire UK could also remain in a Temporary Customs Union with the EU to minimise distruption for intra-UK trade.

From Tony Connelly’s Brexit blog on RTÉ

"Although the idea [of a Temporary Customs Union] was the brainchild of Olly Robbins, Theresa May was instantly enthusiastic. In fact, senior members of her team had been talking about a UK-wide customs solution for months, in terms that are remarkably similar to those which have ended up in the final Withdrawal Agreement.

“It came out of a meeting many, many months ago,” recalls one source who was present at the meeting,

“There was a whole bunch of people in the room [including Jeremy Heywood, the late Cabinet Secretary]. This is what the prime minister wants to do, they were told. You would have all the benefits of the customs union without any of the downsides”.

If there is a Hotel California aspect to the Withdrawal Agreement; it’s because the UK Government has built the hotel and checked in.

Source
rte.ie/news/analysis-and-co … ckstop-uk/