Broomstick solution to unemployment

Signing on is too easy.
If we made it a condition that to claim any form of unemployment assistance you had to sweep the streets, would there be a lot less people claiming the dole ?

You need to quantify you comments a but more there Mr A.

Have you just signed on or have you ever had to sign on?

You cannot lump UB (unemployment benefit) and UA (unemployment assistance) together.

Singing on is not easy its merely a right in respect to your PRSI contributions, UB

It is not an endless money hole as some might think.
UB has its time limit which then moves you to UA which you don’t always get.

Most important point to note is unemployment is not the cause it is the effect. Lets not get those mixed up as the media and politicians try to rewrite recent history.

You have not thought this through, Mr. A?

Who is going to pay for the tools (brush & shovel and their maintenance)?
Who is going to pay for all the safety gear (luminous jacket, boots, gloves)?
Who is going to monitor quality control (otherwise you have people standing around breast feeding shovels)?
How do you get time to look for other “scarce” work when you are sweeping the road?
What about moral hazard (it becomes acceptable to throw rubbish on the side of the road, “sure, I’m creating employment”)?
What happens if you put your back out sweeping the road (compensation claim and disability benefit and back pain is hard to prove)
How much will the scheme cost to administer (do we need another quango)?
Is this idea not a variation of running an economy by selling houses to each other?

You could of course go all out and make their unemployment payments dependent on fining the people who dumped the rubbish in the first place, so the scheme pays for itself.

Don’t be harsh on people who have found themselves out of a job, remember, this is probably the first generation of Irishmen and women, who have worked since they left school, to be suddenly without a job or prospects in the immediate future is a huge shock to them, and not all are coping well. At the end of the day it could be yourself signing on the dole!

How about public floggings for tax defaulters…

What about the guys who already sweep the streets? WIll they lose their jobs, only to be put out sweeping the streets for less money?

I was thinking about somethign similar though. How about paying for rubbish? You would get some money for every kilo of rubbish that you brought into the dump. Turn rubbish into a valuable thing. Soon the rubbish bin men would be paying to take your refuse, and some entrpenure would set up a private enterprise to sweep the streets.

If the government put all the money it spent on cleaning publish spaces into paying out for rubbish by weight, would the country end up cleaner?

That would be violating their human rights so they could sue for the money back, plus you would need another quango to administer the scheme, the beatings would be outsourced to the private sector. ( I believe there is a ‘company’ with the requisite experience, based in Armagh, who are short of work in the last few years)

I know a fair few people from my last company who were laid off many months ago; Active sorts who aren’t happy unless they are doing something.
They were paying their PRSI for over a decade.
They are having problems finding any sort of job.
Start putting pressure on them and they may take dead end jobs like ISP support which do them no favours and limit their earning potential from which Income tax and PRSI gets paid.
Unemployment benefit is a safety net for people who find themselves on the dole. It could do with being a bit tighter but not much tighter. I figure a bit of pressure might get these recently unemployed back in work by a month or two but not much more than that.

On the other hand you have to look at unemployment assistance for those who don’t want to work or aren’t fit for work.
UA is long term and FAS or whomever should really be skilling these people with skills that make them employable while Social Welfare should be for want of a better word “hounding” them.
I’m thinking in particular of the council estate behind me where there is no societal impetus to get up, get out and better yourself; Those who were that way inclined did just that, got up, got out and bettered themselves and no longer reside in the estate.

Back in the early nineties when I was unemployed for many many months with degree in hand but not a sniff of work to be had I had to re-evaluate my expectations as at that time UA wasn’t enough to subsist on, I didn’t know how to sweat the benefits out of the system and I was going nowhere. My expectations as to the type of job I wanted took a few months to lower to the point where I could find a job. Happy times(not)!

To be fair, the penalties for tax evasion, are already quite severe. You have to pay the original tax owed, plus interest and charges. It usually ends up to be double what you originally owed.

For transactions that don’t exist you can’t be penalised.
If Revenue only find 5% of your evasion and punish you at 200% of amount evaded it’s in your interest to evade tax here there and everywhere.

I thought Mr Anderson was an estate agent. Probably a matter of time.

Unless you’re an ‘S’ class director. Then you get FA, even though you still have to pay PRSI. Half the tax credits too.

That’s an interesting point. I hadn’t though about it in that way before. But it would need some balance. If they could get jobs in ISP support, why not take them and look for a better job while working? Move on after 2 or 3 months of getting a wage and providing something to the economy? Might even improve the knowledge of some of the full-timers in ISP support

By the way, is a job like ISP support sort of like a black mark for serious IT people, which would inhibit career prospects?

If I crashed my car should I have to sweep the streets before I claim my insurance?

If I’m made redundant after paying PRSI for the past ten years should I have to sweep the streets before claiming my insurance?

I very much respect Mr_Anderson because I know he’s put his personal and professional reputation where his mouth is, but I fail to understand if this statement is meant to be funny or serious.

Has someone hijacked your login or something?

I detect a tone of resentment here against risk takers who have made a profit, tried to hide it and now have declared it.

I am so annoyed over the last few months at this governments total waste of tax payers money that I applaud anyone who tries to avoid paying them any more tax (for them to just waste again)…

I thought Mr Anderson was an estate agent. Probably a matter of time. Meeeaaaoooww :open_mouth:

Judging from Mr A’s previous posts on this site I’ld say that if he ends up signin’ on then there won’t be many EA’s left in business. Just my humble opinion,

My problem with the dole in this country is that there were consistently 150,000 Irish people “unemployed” during the last 15 years or so.
Sure I do recognize that some of those were genuine cases, Let’s put it at 50,000.
I think however that the idea of living on the dole in Ireland has become par for the course for some communities.
This should not be the case.

It’s another case of the handout culture that is just too much in this nation.
I do believe in proving unemployment assistance for a reasonable period of time, I do blieve in providing training and education, I do believe in social assistance scheme to help needy families but I’m afraid that there is a very large number of persons who’ve no intention but to draw the dole as a useful state supplemt to their other incomes. This is just not on.

It’s already been identifed this year than many cases of social welfare assistance are fradulent.

The rules should be changed to make it necessary to work to survive.
If we all draw the dole, what then?

Have to say Im surprised by the response, nay honoured (1 from OW Him(?)self and 2 from the great Green Bear (some classic posts)).
To answer a few questions … no, its not me im thinking about (nor in the near future). And no, nobody has hijacked my name.

My idea originated because of people I have met through work.
Im talking about asset rich, cash poor individuals.
Honestly, I have met millioinares who are on the dole.
People who have vast amounts of wealth, who earn (income) little, and consequently, claim the dole.
Theres no point saying we should have means test - it doesnt work.
Rich people have ways and means of distancing themselves from their assets, allowing them to claim poverty whilst holding onto 500 acres somewhere.
In terms of those who already clean the streets - make them inspectors to make sure the work of the unemployed is being done.
I am also fully aware of those who have contributed towards their PRSI. I would propose a grace period whereby they could use up their tax paid, and only when thats been exhausted, the broom is thrust unto them.

It would also work for the long-term unemployed by forcing them up in the morning and into a routine.

Ive given my idea considerable though and sincerely believe it would work.

*im very drunk at present and reserve the right to edit this response when sober :stuck_out_tongue:

As long as they’ve paid their contributions, the prince and the prick-louse are equally entitled.

As for those abusing the system, a public education campaign would be no harm. People should be made aware that those claiming fraudulently are a financial burden on their friends and family, not “the faceless taxpayer” or “the system”. Informing on those who abuse welfare should not be stigmatised.

For those who sponge off the dole, it should be presented in terms of game theory: which is more compelling, your immediate self-interest in economic gain, or your defered self-interest in the stabliity of your community?

Nah, if there’s already someone doing the work then why promote levels of beaurocracy?

Instead would it not be more productive to let the government support retraining & then put employers in contact with job-seekers and let the market sort things out?

[edit: oops, removed a tangental comment that might be misinterpreted]

a better solution would be to have mandatory training schemes, that way you come out of unemployment skilled up, pushing broom doesn’t teach anybody anything.

a more efficient FAS system with (perhaps) smaller modules - that way you don’t have to wait months for the next one to start - would be an idea with the basis being that you have 3 months when you first sign on to get back into the workforce but after that you have to be in a class in order to continue getting any benefit (unless you cannot do so -eg: injury being the cause of unemployment), the same would go for long term unemployed, the best method to get people into the workforce is education

Oh I don’t know about that, a few posters round here probably could learn a thing or too from it… :wink:

This upskilling only makes sense if the skill sets being picked up make sense.
There are lots of VEC courses on subjects such as interior design and boat building etc… that are more hobby related than anything else.
There is a limited need for such skill sets IMO…