Buena Vista, Killiney - then and now


#1

Expected to fetch over €4m in 2004
highbeam.com/doc/1P2-24739228.html

“Lisney withdrew Buena Vista on Killiney Hill Road and is now quoting 4 75 million”
inarchive.com/ie/s/sbpost.ie … _The_Post/

Fast forward to 2006
“Developer Frank Gilmer has been refused planning permission by Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council to demolish the 1940s-built Buena Vista on Killiney Hill Road in Co Dublin and replace it with a much larger structure.”
highbeam.com/doc/1P2-24852930.html
Article mentions it “failed to sell at auction”

Now asking €1.5m for the site, with expired planning permission from 2007 (a partially constructed house appears in the photos)
myhome.ie/residential/brochu … in/2491059


#2

I think the partially built structure is the shell of the 12,000sqft+ proposed house from the expired planning permission. If it is, that’ll be pretty expensive to get rid of - assuming the next buyer will not want to build the same 12,000sqft house, that is.

To be honest, they’re overestimating the site

It is a one acre site in Killiney. Practically every house around the Killiney Hill area is that large.

Fernside up the road is on 2 acres with 7,000sqft of already constructed space to boot and has been on the market quite some time asking €2.5m. Yet, even knowing this, Lisney thought it would be a great idea to put Buena Vista on the market for €1.5m for half the site with a mess of a structure on it. I have to say I thought it was totally overpriced when I saw it yesterday.


#3

Do you get a view of the O’Donnells too? Where do I sign?


#4

It will not be the O’Donnell’s for long.


#5

There are a few houses on this hill on and off market going for circa one mill an acre.
Some have actual houses on them, and some are older but are period style, so are worth restoring.
I do think that 1.5m for this acre is a big ask - I would have expected it to be closer to 1m.
Perhaps the 750k being asked for the site in Dromeen, which is really a big ask, guided them?

(PS Managed to recover the link to the Buena Vista site map from last planning permission)

https://dms.dlrcoco.ie/Exe/tiff2png.exe/B000KDVL.PNG?-i+-r+75+-g+15+D%3A\ZYLABD~1\INDEXD~1\PLANEXT\TIFF\2680\2008\00000000\B000KDVL.TIF


#6

Per Property Price Register
06/12/2013 €1,101,321.50 Buena Vista, Killiney Hill Road, Killiney


#7

Hmmm. Almost exactly USD 1.5m. Buyer from across the pond?


#8

Good spot
Given that it would cost +1-2m to re-develop, probably more in the domain of the international buyer (or ex-pat).
Will be interesting to see if they get rid of the 12,000 sq ft shell on it (worth checking out on Google Earth) or try to finish it ?


#9

myhome.ie/priceregister/buen … lin-311374
€903,854 on 11 Aug 2014

One year later, 200k less. Surely a case of restructuring of ownership since it wasn’t on the market again. Anybody pass by this and know what the current status is in terms of construction?


#10

Buena Vista, Killiney Hill Road, Co. Dublin (a.k.a Tower Hall)

+1 I think this must be re-structuring

Derelict and overgrown and the 12,000 sq ft. concrete shell remains. Jumped fence on right (oops). Views v. good (esp. first floor, but also from ground flr). Good as Paddock Wood but private (Paddock sat in amphitheater looked down on by terraced houses). Like being on a one acre suspended flat platform with few restrictions or trees to east or south views (actually I would say quite an exposed site). Getting plenty of west evening light (Killiney / Dalkey houses with best east sea views usually have west light blocked by hill; while sites with good west light, often have poor sea views etc.). Seems to have an exit to marino avenue west pathways down to the sea / dart (but overgrown). Very pleasant (as good a site as I have seen on Killiney Hill Road).

Irish Times photo (Buena Vista large grey concrete shell is on upper right, below the Martello Tower, but above Edge in Fortlands). Better view on Apple iMaps 3D (can’t paste it).

No new planning on the DLR site, and no signs of any work done except a new front gate (there is some site clearing). Past planning docs show the site is almost exactly 1 acre, but the scale of the 12,000 sq ft. structure, makes it seem a little smaller.

Killiney is a tricky place to value. It has had the most c 3m sales with +7 outside D4 & D6 since the collapse. Zero / zero planning means some Killiney mansions come with excess acres with lower marginal value (i.e. 9,600 sq ft. Ashurst on 3.75 acres, sold for same as 8,405 sq ft. Paddock Wood on 1.2 acre). There are also material dividing lines between the pricing on the southerly section of Killiney Hill Road (down from Killiney Hill Village) and everywhere else. Pricing falls off quickly as you go back up west from Killiney Hill Road to Glenalua Road / Killiney Heath / Church Road. See for example, Ballybrack House (1 acre + 5,599 sq ft.) struggling at 1.75m, where a derelict site at Dromeen (Kilmore Av.) got 1.8m an acre in 2013.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=64532&hilit=ballybrack+house
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=52354&p=831028&hilit=dromeen#p831028

I felt 2013 asking for Buena Vista of 1.5m was too high. Paddock Wood, also on Killiney Hill Road, and with equally good views on 1.2 acre, was asking 2m, and had a +8,405 sq ft. finished new house on it (albeit with big remedial costs and a personalised layout that would not suit all). Dromeen’s agent was also considering c 1m per acre. Paddock however surprised when it went for 4.0m at auction in late 2013 (most surreal auction of my life), implying c 2m an acre. Dromeen also held out for 1.8m an acre.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=60830&p=831479&hilit=paddock+wood#p831479

Things moved further on in 2014 on Killiney Hill Road. The 4,714 sq ft. Dorset Lodge (across road) on a 0.60 acre site with lesser sea views sold for 3m, implying c 3m per acre value. The 2,626 sq ft. Galleen (down and right) on a 0.40 acre site and also with lesser views, sold for 2.2m, also implying c 3m per acre value. While these are period houses, sites for modern houses seem equally well valued. Killiney planners are hardcore with renovations of period houses (ask the Edge in Fortlands, or Coleman in Sorrento House), and on and below (i.e. east) Killiney Hill Road (most valuable part) is almost all period houses. Modern build opportunities are rarer here. The DLR planners are also prone, under sustainability, to even restricting complete demolitions of non-period houses, unless derelict. Even in the small Ashurst housing estate on Military Road, what are effectively sites for new builds, are now getting implied site values of 2-3m an acre (i.e. 5 Ash Hurst and 8 Ash Hurst), for this reason.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=61097&p=826273&hilit=galleen#p826273
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=64395&hilit=5+ashurst

Buena Vista was auctioned in June 2004 (2 yrs before peak) with AMV of 4m. It did not sell at auction (was confusion on its long leasehold title as I remember), but it sold after for c 5m (per Paddock Wood). The new buyer also bought the neighboring little Santa Barbara house to create a 0.47 ha / 1.2 acre site. Their reason for this was apparent when they put in for a 17,662 sq ft. McMansion development (c 2x Paddock Wood, which was refused). After going to An Board Pleanala however, they got permission to demolish the old house in favour of the 12,000 sq ft. modern structure (D07A / 1116), which now lies uncompleted on the site.
irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/vista-from-art-deco-style-home-in-killiney-1.1144257
irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/council-rejects-plan-for-killiney-house-1.999701

Interesting to calibrate Buena Vista’s June 2004 pricing. Nearby 5 Sorrento Terrace in Dalkey was auctioned a month earlier in May 2004, with a 3.8m AMV but was withdrawn at 4m (same Examiner article below, also notes the Paddock Wood site selling at same time). 2 Sorrento Terrace sold for 2.5m in 2012, and 3 Sorrento Terrace sold for 3.0m in 2014.
irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/on-sorrento-terrace-in-dalkey-for-3-8m-1.1310181
irishexaminer.com/archives/2004/0520/business/dalkey-pad-withdrawn-from-sale-as-4m-fails-to-clinch-deal-303226899.html

I can remember Buena Vista (as Tower Hall) selling in c. 1995 for about £0.8m punts after auction (can’t paste my Irish Times archive link here for some reason). Again, any of #2 to #7 Sorrento Terrace (but not #1 or #8), would have been valued below this level in 1995.

Percy Lodge (across road from Buena Vista), is now on sale for 2.65m. Percy was auctioned in June 2005 for 3.25m AMV (withdrawn, despite making its AMV) but sold in June 2006 for 4.25m (sellers v lucky here). This is 2 years after Buena Vista sold (prices were up more by then), and was still barely at Buena Vista’s 2004 asking. Percy Lodge has had c 400-500k of renovation work done post its June 2006 sale, which needs to be allowed for.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=64387&p=826281&hilit=percy+lodge#p826281

I think Edge of U2 bought Buena Vista in 2013, and in hindsight, got a good deal at c 1m per acre (certainly worth than twice that, if not more). Looks right into his neighboring Fortlands “compound” (Buena Vista’s ground floor is level with Edge’s Fortlands roof). I’m told he seperatly bought neighboring Santa Barbara house. Buena Vista went Sale Agreed quick in mid 2013 (i.e. mark of a “special buyer”). Edge had a bad time with DLR planners on his period structures (no such issues with Buena Vista). The Buena Vista site is not as guarded as his Fortlands “compound” is (yet). Look for a ‘D. Evans’ in future planning applications :angry:


#11

Gate was open to this place today, pretty incredible site

10 more pics here

imgur.com/a/UFRnH


#12

Congratulations.
You are the winner of this month’s SoCoDu award* for photographic endeavor.

*The pin holds no responsibility for dog bites or shotgun injuries in the pursuit of this award


#13

I was almost waiting for a comment like that from you. :laughing:

:nin


#14

Up for sale for 2.5m…not much progress done with the site…will it sell?


#15

sold €2,750,000
3rd September
what a storied history it’s had over the years