Burning-men 2017, Witch hunts and beyond


#541

I suspected it at the time, and I remember discussing the possibility with some acquaintances, but listening to the evidence today from the Belfast trial it seems abundantly clear to me now that when he was blaming the victim in an obscure rape case in Britain, he was really trying to offer a defence in the Belfast case where he was abundantly aware of who the defendants were. The man couldn’t possibly go any lower in my estimation. He’s a fucking maggot of a man.


#542

He can’t have known the detail, he’s not that bad. But I think the Ulster Rugby rape case might have been in his mind and I thought I said it at the time (but a search shows I didn’t) and the decision of the Irish rugby captain to attend the trial is shocking judgement. I don’t recall seeing a rape case being reported in such horrifying detail. When she says “the atmosphere changed” it caused a shudder of recognition.

But the world is not a safe place. And going into the bedroom of a man you met that night and only know off the television is not a risk free decision. You might wish it is. But it isn’t and it never will be. No amount of secondary school programmes to educate men can ever account for evil. And trying to hector every man for some men’s evil would like hectoring all women when one woman shakes a baby to death.


#543

Few men go into professions like teaching now for fear of a life altering allegations that will brand and ruin you even if there is absolutely nothing behind them. If this witch hunting continues you`ll find fewer men approaching women at all


#544

In relation to teaching it’s an interesting point but I doubt if there’s any research to support it.

In my experience on the board of management of a school and other different voluntary groups, child protection is to the fore of every single thing that happens, but an integral part is that all adults avoid situations that can be misconstrued as even giving an opportunity to abuse.

It’s very important that adults (men and women) can recognise situations that, if an allegation of abuse was made, could result in their dismissal because of their breach of child protection policies. Those policies are there to protect the child, but equally to protect the reputation of the adult. We have to start from a position of listening to the child.

A lot of the time (particularly with bullying allegations) there are simply layers of misunderstanding and mistrust built on a very small and insignificant incident, but that gets established in the course of an investigation. An unfortunate downside of this system is the massive work load that it imposes on principals, but it does work.


#545

Rory Best’s position as captain of the Irish National team must now be in doubt. Absolutely shameful for him to show up in court on the day that that victim was giving evidence.


#546

yay , cat fight!

dailyedge.ie/rose-mcgowan-do … 6-Feb2018/


#547

The Alt-Right may have lost a few of their heroes recently but they still have Rodrigo Duterte.


#548

Will Ulster say no ? 7 days is a long time to spend in the witness. Enough for the jury to have a solid view. I have to say that being reminded every day, several times a day of the seediness (at best) of top sportsmen is depressing to me for some reason.


#549

Prosecuting and defending rape : Prespectives from the Bar.

d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamli … gRape.html

Quite a chilling account of the strategies that barristers use to twist the legal system in their favour. Nothing to do with justice.


#550

In the Ulser rugby case based on the evidence presented so far a rape conviction is looking unlikely to me,

only one witness and she is effectively for the defence.


#551

Except her evidence suggests Jackson lied from the offset. And her evidence can be interpreted as excusing her own action in not intervening.


#552

True.

i found it curious that jackon now claims he didnt have sex with her at all, he must be pretty confident that they cant prove he did, because if they can he will convicted for sure.


#553

The Taxi driver evidence is very important. I think the defendants are doomed. And their whatsapp conversation looks like conspiracy.


#554

IF they are found guilty then I really think the judge needs to weight up the additional trauma that the defense barristers have put the woman through when it comes to sentencing. Just as a guilty plea can bring leniency, defendants who adopt an ‘aggressive’ defense should suffer the consequences.


#555

There is far too much coverage of this trial in the papers already. The testimony is harrowing.
I think we should all refrain from comment until it concludes.


#556

i dont see that his evidence condemns them to be honest.

being honest i think their behaviour was disgusting, but i would very much doubt that this was the first time they were involved in group sex. i dont believe that they felt they were raping her but i do believe that afterwards she felt that she was raped.

on the evidence that has been presented i would be surprised if the jury finds them guilty, but who knows.

as one of the women in the office said to me, regardless of the outcome, it doesnt exactly encourage the report of rape.


#557

I understand your sentiment, but worth noting that this thread is not public. I’ll refrain from commenting on it any more anyway.


#558

That’s part of why we have laws, enforcement, and punishment. It’s also part of why we have education programmes, awareness programmes and so on.

Do you get as upset that there are speed-limit signs on the road, advertisements against speeding, and penalty points and convictions for offenders?
Do you get upset that there are signs in shops “shoplifters will be prosecuted” and you have to walk through a scanner on the way out to check for stolen items?

Nobody with any wit or sense believes that any of these measures, or all of them, can eliminate the problems. Reasoned people can argue and debate the relative effectiveness of specific measures (education versus punishment etc.,), and can of course also debate the relevance and appropriateness of the aims.

But behaviour can be altered. The individual can change their own behaviour, and the group can also alter the behaviour of the individual. I was listening yesterday to Dan Carlin’s Ghosts of the Ost Front podcast, on the German retreat and Soviet invasion. There’s little doubt that in that situation Soviet military initiatives led to an increase in rape and atrocity, just as in the earlier German invasion eastwards German rhetoric and regulation added to the brutality and deadliness of the operation.

Invoking “evil” as something ineffable and eternal is generally either wooly minded imprecision or willful misdirection.


#559

An interesting aspect of the trial is the number of fake Twitter accounts that have been set up attacking the alleged victim.

Here’s a few examples I’ve found. They all pretend to be women, which is quite telling.

twitter.com/Perolite
accessmidwives.com/erin-frank.html

twitter.com/LouiseBoland83
shutterstock.com/video/clip … ummer.html

twitter.com/PatsyShaw90


#560

You’re right - who knows. But the problem with the taxi driver is that he was the first independent person to see her and he says she was sobbing and he says there was a phonecall from their friend to someone about what a problem they had on their hands - but the next day they’re sending each other jaunty (fake) text messages. I wonder did the defence counsels put the taxi driver through the ringer ?