Burning-men 2017, Witch hunts and beyond


#603

is it likely to go anywhere? I doubt it. not sure what NI libel laws regarding twitter can do. probably will deter others from commenting.


#604

I doubt it, if Jackson has any sense he will do nothing and keep his head down, I also think he should do the euro
millions tonight because he seems to be very lucky


#605

lucky???

he has had his career stalled for a year and been on trial very publicly for a rape that he didnt commit, i wouldnt think he is lucky at all


#606

Not sure I would call going through that lucky.

The evidence of the sober witness amongst all others who were pissed seems relevant to me. Also, removed from the incident but the lady who slept in room with Olding and he did nothing inappropriate.

The accusations of white middle/upper class abuse of power is interesting. On the flip side, I have seen some comment suggesting the incident should never have gotten to court on the evidence but there was heavy influence from someone powerful ensuring it went to trial.

Horrible mess. Following verdict, I feel sorry for all involved.


#607

There’s now a #SueMePaddy Twitter storm in full force with mainly defamatory posts. O’Riordain’s tweet is getting even more coverage than it did when he posted it.


#608

The root of the problem is that defendants for rape in the UK don’t have anonymity. All storms follow from that. On the one hand I can’t much argue with anything in O’Riordan’s tweet (apart from the vacuous virtue signalling) can you ? But I suppose you can’t tweet that you believe a rape victim on the day that a jury who’ve heard all the evidence say they don’t.

Various talking heads in the NGO sector get dragged on to radio such as on Off the Ball, all stress how vital consent is, all are happy in their safe space of ‘No means No’ and ‘You can say yes but then No’. When presenters try to pin them down on vaguer real world scenarios they’re really no use - how drunk is “drunk” when you say a “drunk person cannot consent”…does that also apply to relationships …if you pour your partner an extra glass of wine in the hope they’ll be freer what does that make you ?

Edit - I note I just called the claimant a rape victim. Radio stations are still calling it “the Rugby Rape Trial”. I suppose they should call it the “Rugby Not a Rape Trial” now.


#609

One thing there is widespread agreement on is the need for anonymity on the part of both the accuser and the accused.

My sympathies lie with the accused. The impression I’ve formed is that she left the house feeling violated and abused, and refused to just ‘suck it up’. The reason the accused were found not guilty was the murkiness surrounding the idea of consent, and the possibility that while she may have been interested in an encounter when she was in the taxi, she may have totally changed her mind and simply wanted out by the time she supposedly went upstairs to retrieve her handbag. The holes in the prosecution meant that there was a reasonable doubt, and the jury ended up filing a ‘Not Guilty’ verdict (as they were instructed to do if they believed a reasonable doubt existed).

Nobody I know would put themselves through such an ordeal if they didn’t in fact think they’d been severely wronged.


#610

Jackson has spent £500K on his defence. His career is in ruins.

He can’t claim legal aid while he has any significant assets (Olding had to). He has no recourse against the PPS despite being found not guilty.

The PPS face no consequences for prosecuting a case with no evidence worthy of the name and no realistic prospect of a conviction.

How is this justice?

Hopefully Aodhan O’Riordain and some of the mob on Twitter end up contributing to his costs.


#611

a significant number of UK rape cases have collapsed. Including this one with notable parallels - 4 privileged young men; unseemly behaviour on their part including a mobile phone

bbc.com/news/uk-england-glou … e-36247493
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … rever.html

**I’m not saying it’s in any way common [to make up a story] **but it’s simply not enough to say - “the accused must be guilty - no sane person would put themselves through a court case if it weren’t” also worth remembering the Nora Wall case - a classic case of “you couldn’t make it up” - except it was made up


#612

I do hope that the four can move on with life, and have their lives as before.


#613

m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/craig-gilroy-unavailable-for-selection-as-irfu-and-ulster-launch-internal-review-following-rugby-rape-trial-36771214.html

Justice 0
Twitter mob whatever


#614

employers need to start growing balls


#615

arent balls the main problem at the moment,

seems to be anyone with balls is a target :angry:


#616

No, they need to start snipping them :laughing:
They work for a community dependent sports organisation with a cross section of fans, what did they think was going to happen if it went wrong ?

Leaving aside my rugby middle class prejudices I have very little sympathy for any of the men involved in this. They engaged in a high risk sexual act and it turned out very bad for them. It seems that high risk sexual acts were normal to them but they usually got away with it.

The people who get extreme sex acts “right” are the fetish and B.D.S.M crowd. Because it’s all negotiated in advance and everyone knows the boundaries. These clowns were just chancing their arm. They deserve their destruction. It’s like speeding at 100mph. You’ll live a lot of the time if you do it a lot and no one finds out, but there’s a chance you’ll get destroyed or disabled, so don’t whine if you do


#617

how sad and disturbing:

apparently 100 people crowd funded an ad in the Belfast Telegraph demanding that jackson and Olding never play rugby for Ulster and Ireland again.

independent.ie/irish-news/c … 80731.html


#618

Jackson attempting some kind of damage limitation with this statement today…probably too late to go on a charm offensive at this point.

independent.ie/irish-news/n … 81111.html

*In a statement issued to PA, he said he would always regret the events of the night in question.

He apologised “unreservedly” for engaging in “degrading and offensive” WhatsApp conversations about the incident.

The fly-half said public criticism of his behaviour was “fully justified” and he expressed determination to return to the values and principles that guided his upbringing, in particular the importance of respect.*


#619

Absolutely.


#620

Bit of a social media fight back. Petition through 5k in less than 48hrs. Arguably takes more fortitude to attach ones name to this given the social media pressure being applied. I haven’t personally attached my name to it as I’m still conflicted about the whole thing .

change.org/p/ulster-rugby-g … ry.control


#621

The IRFU’s moral track record is pretty weak. Who knows what they’ll do.
irishtimes.com/opinion/irfu … -1.3284584

Imagine if the sexual encounter was with a 19 year old male student would there have been a “witch hunt” and would there be a petition ?


#622

If it were 19yo male, I imagine they would already be in France, given the hard line Presbyterian element in Ulster.