"Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin


#21

But what if the home owner, let’s not forget this is about a person and potentially their families dwelling space, had made a significant life investment, let’s say paying approximately 50% of their income on a monthly basis for 20 years to buy their home which came at a huge cost?

Also, it may not be a “crappy house” as you say but a house that did receive further investment and improvement, including the garden.

We are truly well into the stage where government in this country, as may others, but we take the biscuit here, just cuts things their own way. The city centre chock a block with activities yet there is significant lack of willingness to relocate the bigger employers, especially the state services out of the city centre to the suburbs. There are solutions, cost effective ones but not ones that are going to be implemented.

There’s some other story at the back of this no doubt.


#22

Thats all true but we still need a better bus system, this bus plan will be like the Luas, the usual people will find problems with it before it starts, they will moan about it while its being built but then once its finished we all wonder why it wasn’t done 20 or 30 years ago


#23

Anyone who bought 20 years ago is sitting on a huge tax free gain.

Everyone wants a pain free plan but Dublin suburbs aren’t dense enough for an underground metro and the city is choking. The younger generation getting fucked on house prices are paying the pensions of the retired fogies who own the houses closer to town and they’re the ones sitting in busses because of the shit planning of the previous generation. The Plebs who can’t afford Dart line and Luas line gaffs are spending their lives in traffic not with their families.

Everyone’s a libertarian when it comes to their own interests until then it’s psuedo socialism


#24

I have done a fair bit of work on my front garden and I am quite attached to it but I would happily take this deal. A few quid (although I am sure its a lot less than the figures quoted), the landscaping of some of the neighbours gardens which can only help the area, a quicker journey into town. I am sure it will increase values except maybe where the only parking space is lost. Even then they are offering to try to find a solution.

I think these sweetheart deals are the key to getting infrastructure to happen. I am familiar with the alternative and it just doesn’t work.

I was disappointed to see the Merrion Gates plan dropped despite there being less opposition than support. Maybe we need a way to amplify the existing support for infrastructure proposals so as to balance the well organised and loud objectors.


#25

That just makes things worse. At least going into the city centre it is straightforward to provide public transport (albeit we’re not even managing that terribly well on all corridors). If you’re shifting people into the suburbs you’re guaranteeing gridlock.

The solution to congestion is to put people closer together (to facilitate better public transport, walking and cycling options), not to move them further apart.


#26

There is very little public service employment in Dublin city centre that doesn’t have to be.

There was a wave of decentralisation from the 80s to about 2008. Most of the clerical stuff (payroll, grant processing, driver testing, revenue) is done outside Dublin.

What’s left is the policy stuff that interacts most with ministers and other stakeholders Dublin based.


#27

Revenue still have a big office off O’Connell Street. FAS are whatever it’s called this week still have a big office on Townsend Street. Probation Service are on the Quays.


#28

in fairness that’s where their “clients” are


#29

m.independent.ie/irish-news/new … 30419.html

This is going to be a huge media war… and I can’t see it being rationally discussed.
A lot of scaremongering will go on about ‘gardens being taken’, but only the very VERY last line/quote of this article is accurate:
“It depends on what they are going to do. A little bit won’t make any difference.”

To someone with a 6 metre front garden where they just park the car, and spend no other meaningful time, losing a metre of this garden should not make a meaningful difference. To someone with a bigger front garden - there should likely be no quality of life impact at all. On the contrary, quality of life should go up: they’ll be paid 25k on top of having the remediation works covered, and get an improved bus service with more reliable times. What’s not to like?


#30

The biggest issues I see currently with the bus service have been commented on here before, and as far as I can see will still be the biggest issues with any redesign:

  • no policing of bus lanes in Dublin. None at all. We don’t even try!

  • capacity/loading on buses is terribly poor. Not enough buses at peak times for load. Driving (literally) more people off the buses.

  • Anecdotally, Routes/Times sometimes designed to suit drivers schedules/ depot locations. Not customer demand.

  • distribution of bus stops can be farcical. On one strip of Rathmines there are 3 stops within less than 200m!

Any new service still beset by these issues will still be poor. Despite marginally improved route times. The above 4 issues are the biggest impedence, I think, to a significantly better service. The first 2 could be fixed inside a week or two if there was really the will to do it. But… This. Is. Ireland.


#31

It’s actually 400 - 600 metres depending on which 3 of the 5 outbound stops between Portobello and the Garda Station you use.

And as us Transportation Experts know :stuck_out_tongue: the number of stops is actually to keep schoolchildren apart. There’s a stop for St Mary’s, a stop for St Louis junior school, a stop for the shoppers at the Swan and schoolchildren walking from Ranelagh, and a stop for St Louis Senior school.


#32

Had a quick look over the one that affects me- Clongriffin/Malahide Road QBC- can’t see too many home owners cribbing about their garden loss if the price is right but the major work will be the removal of the Artane roundabout and the big Roundabout at Darndale which are to be made into signalised junctions- these will be major civil engineering undertakings that will no doubt take months and if done wrong could be a real blight on the receiving suburban environment.

Even after all that is done the success of the project is acknowledged as being dependent on DCC completing the Clontarf Road/Fairview upgrades simultaneously or else they will be just funneling buses into gridlock…


#33

Try the inbound side of the road! It’s ridiculously inefficient!


#34

Agreed re bus stop spacing, I could lose the two nearest my house and the third is very near. They also need to get rid of cash, it should be flat fare, card readers on both sides of the door. No one should have to interact with the driver.


#35

The NTA want to do this, they are proposing a flat fare with unlimited transfers, within 90 minutes, paid for by leap card, and costing about 2.5 euro. There will also be short hop ticket, probably for trips of 2 or 3 stops, costing somewhat less than this. NTA and Dublin Bus would love to simplify fares and go cashless, politicians will come up with “hard cases” eg you have to pay a 5 euro deposit/reserve on your Leap Card


#36

“Lose bus stops” oh yeah ? Will we come back to you at 85 and see do you still think that way :stuck_out_tongue:

What you may notice if you look a little harder is how unfriendly cities are to old people. And Dublin is not the worst in Europe. But the old are still darted past impatiently as if they don’t exist. The elderly are invisible in daily life.


#37

A fair point, but is that the reason for too close together stops, if that is the reason then I need to think again about the distance between bus stops

But they still need to ditch cash fairs, thats an easy win for everyone


#38

I agree that cities can be unfriendly to older people - and this does concern me.

And so BECAUSE of that very issue I’d still like to see appropriate bus stops.
To me this means not an inefficient cluster of 3 bus stops for same route within 200m, and then none in some parts for 600 metres. It also means proper elderly-friendly bus kerbing (for using front and middle doors) and drivers that actually bother to pull in fully to the kerb, proper rain and wind sheltering at stops, and appropriately wide footpaths on major bus routes to cater for the footfall.

Wider footpaths allow people moving at different speeds to pass each other without stepping out on to the road. I bring this up as the elderly people on our road, quote it as the thing that makes them most anxious - feeling like they are getting in the way on the narrow path. Especially in poorer weather.

In classic Dublin fashion: our road is a suburban road with a reasonable footpath on one side, an almost unusably narrow footpath on the other side - with a large school on that side. The road lanes are at least a foot on either side wider than they really need to be. A small redesign of the distribution of space would work wonders for everyone. But this will never happen in Ireland.

All of this would make a meaningful difference to all bus passengers and pedestrians - but especially the elderly.


#39

I haven’t seen it with buses, and it would depend on how busy the route,
but in Tokyo on the trains, there are regular, express and limited express trains. Express skip stops. Limited express skip loads of stops.
Depending on your journey, you can change to a faster train that stops less often.

In Singapore, bus fares are cheap (and it is an integrated smart card system with the MRT, train system, based on total distance travelled) but what grinds my gears is: bus stops are busy with multiple bus routes stopping, first at the back and then once again when new passengers arrive at the stop, so usually twice at each stop.


#40

The little-old-ladies argument is a bit silly IMHO.

Bus routes spread out radially from the city centre, generally with one to two kilometres between them. So someone living between two bus corridors already has to walk quite a distance to get to the bus corridor. I highly doubt that an extra hundred metres would make much of a difference to their mobility choices.

My grandmother never drove and doesn’t use the bus at all now that she’s in her 90s. It happened very quickly. There wasn’t really an age when a marginal 200m to the bus stop would have made a difference to her choice to use it.