Buying to let-Good or Bad idea?????????????

I’m considering buying a property to let in the fairview area.Do you think this is a good idea if I get the property at the right price.I have a few property’s already let that i bought over last few years and want to dabble again.All rented out paying thier way.
I will buy a period property requiring renovation as this is what I love doing.Probably in bedsits/1 bed apartments.
I am going to try to get a property for 12 times annual rental when complete so offer 10.5 times rent to allow 1.5 times rent to refurb which should allow for rents to drop slightly.
I believe fairview to be a very good area to let property so dont think rents will actually fall much in this area and not much of supply there at moment.People still need to live somewhere.House will be furnished to very high standard oak floors/nice bathroom/kitchens etc all of which i can source cheaply.

Do you think this is a good idea if got at the right price (certainly not the crazy prices being asked)
i.e house with 4 double bedsits which currently rent for say E750 each/month =E36,000 i would offer 378,000,stamp/legal approx 20,000,refurb/furnish approx 54,000 total investment 452,000@5% mortagage =E22,600 i/o.Allow 4,000 ins/repairs etc 10k profit.

Any comments appreciated.

Who rents in fairview?As in who are your market? Are they going to stay in the country and if so will they have a job?

I don’t think bedsits or 1 beds are most people’s first choice of accommodation. in reality they are rented by the less well off (especially bed sits).

Your sums may not add up on this one as we lose more and more foreign nationals have more an more unemployed. Unless of course you are planning on becoming a very low rent land lord who targets the unemployed.

I’m sure you are aware of the huge number of rental properties available these days…

In general … at the moment… BTL is probably a bad idea anywhere in Ireland.

Yeah LLKOOLK go for it! Surely a canny investor like yourself knows this already anyway. Bedsits, yeah who needs any more space than that? The country needs more entrepreneurs like yourself.You’re a credit to the nation.

Don’t forget that the banks will only give you 80% of the valuation. If they will even give you that now.

Have you got the other 20% for your deposit?

I dont know if your taking the p*** Ivor lot but if you are you’re not very good at it.(dont give up the day job-if you have one) :smiley:
Whizzbang - a lot of people would rent in fairview students/couples/single people/young people and yes mostly Irish/some foreign,have a lot of friends who have lived in the area and surround at some point.
I know as things deteriorate more and more people lose jobs they will go home if foreign and irish will emigrate but there will always be demand in good locations close to shops/dart/bus/town etc etc I believe it is the poorly located/rundown properties where rents will fall much faster than well located/very well furnished properties.
There are a huge number of properties for rent in some areas alright but -
At the moment there’s only 25 properties in fairview for rent on daft/3 bedsits - quite low for quite a large area.Have a friend in lettings told me studios/1 beds are shifting in days not weeks in this area.
I intend to do these up very well (lots of refurb experience)oak floors/doors/porcelain/marble tiles new baths/kitchens tasteful furniture all of which i know where to source cheaply so I think nearly every one looking to rent would be happy in the property they are not going to be grotty bedsits.Wont be targeting the unemployed but would accept s.w /r.a.s as I have number of properties let to these with no problems.

Mrs Macpee -I have plenty of equity built up in my current properties bought in 1999-2003 so raising all of the money should be no problem.Have cash on deposit @6.25% if needed.Better to borrow all at approx 5% and offset mortagage interest against income and pay dirt on cash on deposit.

i’m not trying to be smart or ironic when i say that it does not sound like you need our views. as you have experience then the only reason to post here is because you have doubts.

what could they be?

if you list them, then maybe we could give you useful feedback.

did you ever seek anonymous advice from a property forum before?

Dont mind Ivor.

Between you and me LLKOOLK, I reckon things are on the way up.

Perhaps people made money (for nothing) by doing what your suggesting back in the days of the celtic buble.

Your proposal is, to put it politely, weak.

Just went long 40k on the dow, cdf.

I belive as well

Whats with all the smart comments etc ???
your proposal is to put it politely weak???Did you not read and understand my proposal ibelieve or can you understand it(prob not)??
"Perhaps people made money (for nothing) by doing what your suggesting back in the days of the celtic buble.
Renovating and renting property is not doing nothing sorry to inform you there is actually a lot of hard work involved and people have always made money from renting property if done properly.

You go looking to discuss things with adults and these are the comments you get!!! The one liner crew with nothing to back up what they are saying.

Catbear-Yes i’m really just looking for others views on my proposal I do know what I am talking about when it comes to property but I dont have a crystal ball unfortunately so just if you have some sensible views/advice etc I would appreciate it very much in my post I outlined why I think fairview for example is a good area to buy.

I dont know why people such as ibelieve throw out comments with absolutely no facts or figures to back them up.

I have property investments all houses/apartments (no pre 63/flats).which are all rented out successfully making some decent income after costs.I am now looking for my next investment which I want to buy at the right price/renovate then rent out,then move on to the next one after that once everything works out okay.I have a full time job but can go part time and concentrate on property which I find much more enjoyable.Hopefully give up the day job in time completely.

If people think fairview is not a good area or my proposal sounds flawed please explain why with your own views/facts/figures etc thats what I’m looking for really before I really decide where to invest.

Thanks very much!!(except for ibelieve and ivor) :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

i don’t understand why you would want to buy into a market that is falling,
especially when almost everybody now acccepts we are in for falls of up to 50%,
some believe it will be worse than this.
i dont understand why you would want to invest so much in one asset class.
surely diversification would be advisable seeing that you have a number of properties?

why not do a seach of other topics on the site to get an idea of how people would generally
advise you about the future of property/employment/economy in ireland?
i would say that the people you really want to respond to you will have argued their point so much
they just arent going into all the details again. i spent many weeks trawling through historical posts here,
was very worthwhile. i suggest you do the same. you will see many arguments supported with facts and evidence.

Were bedsits not banned a few months ago?

LLkoolk, I have seen a lot of people do what you are proposing, here in the US over the years, I agree there is a lot of work involved and it’s certainly not money for nothing. I think mostly whats wrong with your plan is the timing, People need housing in good times and bad, but it’s a bit of a punt to buy property when the outlook for the next few years is so dismal. There is some merit to being a contrarian , buying when everybody else is selling, but from what I can garner, very few are selling yet so you may be a little early. Best of luck whatever you decide, and if you want to go the contrarian route, wait until it seems like a bad idea to you and then buy :bulb: :laughing:

Ireland needs buy to let properties like Britain needs camp T.V presenters.


What sort of sq ft are you looking at? Would each bedsit have it’s own ensuite? €750 sounds steep for a basic bedsit(your initial figures didn’t include wages for a concierge). There’s a lot of apartments built around the East Wall. Rents are falling. I’d expect some Fairview/East Wall/Ballybough 2-bed apartments to rent c.€900 before too long.

Bedsits are due to be phased out in the coming months but only ones with shared Bathrooms/kitchens.So i really meant studios or 1 beds a studio having maybe bed/sitting/kitchen separate or in one room but own bathroom.

Troglodyte-If you read my post I have taken into account that prices will fall (the houses that are forecast to fall 50% probably are priced at 20-30 times income.I have set the price I will pay at 12 times rental income to allow for rental drops also.Any asset is valued at the income it produces does it not??

The reason I want to continue to invest in property is because like I said I enjoy it very much.

Buying shares and looking at teletext once a day is not enjoyable.

I suppose it’s like i’m trying to call the bottom of the market by trying to buy now but there are methods of calculating a properties true worth the most widely used being p/e ratio.Theres no way i’d pay near what some people are looking for properties.

I’ve looked at previous posts but a lot of the comments are one liners with no facts.

idontknow-I know very few are selling yet and most people are dellusional about their properties worth so when I decide right this is what i’m prepared to pay based on the achievable rent I can bid away all I want till I find a seller I dont have to wait for the prices to drop to bid I can bid till the prices drop which they will I believe.

If people could tell me why fairview is a bad area to invest or why they think these rents are not achievable I’m all ears :angry: comment there with an arsenal of facts and figures to back it up (surely a member of mensa) :smiley:

Knock yourself out. Do you have the lodgers on standby, itching to rent??

negative equity isnt much fun either.


Dont have an exact property in mind but some i’ve looked at E750 for a 350-400 sq.ft studio with own bathroom.1 bed 450-600 sq.ft E900.Remember these would be furnished to a very high standard the type of place people I believe would be proud to live in and bring friends to thats the way i’ve done my other properties and so far so good.People have always been prepared to pay that little bit more or choose my properties over others purely because of how they are renovated/furnished this i’ve been told many times as I ask them.
We dont really have concierge’s in Ireland Cavecanem (well rarely)just off site management companies for apartment blocks.I presume you are american which I know is very exp for concierge etc.I manage all properties myself so keep costs very low have avery good handyman/electrician for all repairs etc.Good crew of tradesmen I use. I have 1000 lodgers all standing by who have previously read my mind and all now know that I’m thinking of buying in Fairview and they’re all just itching to rent off me. :smiley:

Troglodyte-yes negative equity is not fun I can imagine but how would I be in negative equity with this proposition??

How would you not be in negative equity with this proposition? Fine if rents pay the mortgage, but that’s a gamble.