Calais situation / Refugees, Syria and something else?



All part of the plan.




:laughing: Yeah right, that’s why I said “Germany has good reason to be worried”. I have been attempting to quell some of the more alarmist claims of imminent societal collapse (your chosen term was ‘death spiral’ iirc) due to birth rate decline. I’m tempted at this point to abandon the rational approach and join in with squirting lighter fluid on the bonfire.Im a little confused now…I appreciate that you may have refuted my initial claims that Europe as a whole may have future issues with demographics but is it the case that you have established that the issue applies only to Germany as well as to some of the southern and eastern states?? And that no such ‘issue’ exists in France, Scandinavia, Ireland etc??? ie that overall, its not really something that anyone should be bothering about…is that the established position???

No, clearly it’s something that people should be bothering about. European governments should support working families more effectively. I’m a strong supporter of the French model, having seen it in action at first hand

Not for Germany, which has had jobs going unfilled and therefore unrealized economic potential. Perhaps for Ireland, at least at present, as unemployment is hovering around 10% and the economy is still recovering. The bigger issue is whether peripheral EU countries should lose their young people to the core, just as rural areas have lost young people to urban centers.

I think it’s quite obvious why birthrates have declined. There’s plenty of literature available. Should the African nations be navel gazing to establish why average family size has declined dramatically in the last 30 years?

No, but go ahead with your rhetorical flourishes. At least one of us is enjoying them

Germany needs workers. Either they come from the peripheral economies of Europe, or they come from elsewhere.
I haven’t argued in favour of massive economic migration.
I have argued in favour of EU countries fulfilling their obligations under the UDHR. Do you agree that countries should accept refugees?


Germany needs ***educated ***workers.
How many of the ‘refugees’ are illiterate ?

Many of the refugees arriving in Germany cannot read or write in their own languages, let alone that of their host country.

These people will not fill the skills gap facing Germany.

I have written here before that the EU should take in (genuine) refugees, but not give them citizenship.
There is an educational, cultural and religious divide that does not mix well into a secular, liberal western democracy.


So depopulate Spain.
Send all the young Spanish people to Germany, and fill Spain with retired English people and Irish criminals. :smiley:
It’ll do wonders for the Spanish dependency ratio.


What did the poor old Spanish do to deserve John Gilligan and the Anglo 3? :open_mouth:

:bulb: How about this? We take all the educated, peaceable Syrian and Iraqi doctors and engineers and transfer the population of Portlaoise jail to the middle east in their place? I’m sure there are current guests of the justice ministry who’d feel right at home in a society full of murderous psychopaths.
Who needs Mountjoy when you have Mosul? 8DD

N.B. This is not a serious policy proposal.




"An Ethnocide of the German People" … -thousands




According to the radio today a survey showed that the majority of those fleeing Syria are fleeing the Assad regime, not Islamic State and they wish to return only when he is toppled and not before.


Ah would you ever cop yourself on. Dressing up as Hitler is not classy.


Three medical personnel and a journo write about a visit to the migrant camp at Calais:
Le Monde (in French)
Google translate


What’s the solution then? Let them all into the UK? (And risk tens of thousands more arriving at Calais) Or clear the camp and take them to reception centers and process their asylum claims in the safe country that they’ve already reached? Socialist Europe doesn’t want to make those kind of decisions, it seems…preferring to allow situations like this to fester…


Without more cooperation from the UK, there may not be a long-term solution. Some of these guys took up offers to make their application in France, but the majority of them won’t. They don’t want to be here - they want to be in Britain.
France has cleared multiple camps multiple times, but they get reestablished very quickly. Some migrants get arrested, but most of them escape. How big do you think the Calais police force is? France is within its rights to deport the lot of them, but where to? Drop them on the borders of the EU and the border country will complain. Send them all back to where they came from? What if they’ve no ID? They’ll likely come back in a few months anyway.
In the meantime there is a human crisis. I know that compassion is in very short supply around here, but some people still think it’s important to treat the sick and injured and to feed the hungry. Gradually these services get established and the Calais camps become more and more durable with some food available and some medical services. You see this as inviting more migrants; I see it as decent human compassion for people in need. Here’s a thought - perhaps it’s both at the same time and it’s up to you which perspective you’d rather take?

My solution would be to drop them over to Dover and let Cameron sort them out.
An alternative would be for the UK to set up a processing center near Calais.
At the very least, the UK should try to address whatever it is that prompts these people to risk life and limb to enter Britain illegally.
France is left with the short end of the stick in this one: porous EU borders + Schengen + the appeal of the UK = a humanitarian crisis in Calais. Socialist Europe (whatever the fuck that means?) is not at the root of this particular crisis - it’s British colonialism, laissez faire civic control in the UK, poor external EU border control, and open EU internal borders.


Suds was on Morning Ireland earlier…the Russian strikes are going to make even more Syrian upsticks, maybe 3m more, and Europe has a moral obligation to take in every last 1 of them. No questions asked.
He lauded from ahigh ‘Mrs Merkel’ and the Swedes.
He likened some of the Eastern European EU countries to Crusaders with their comments about only being willing to accept Christians or Orthodox Syrians

He didn’t get a knighthood from his BP chairmanship but this project may swing it for him


Suds was right there by Blair’s side , when Blair did the deals with ghadaffi.
his concern for refugee’s is at best suspect (an possibly outright fraudulent) given his desire to multiculturalize Europe (wasn’t there already 100s of different cultures (national and local) in Europe before 1992?

Go on Suds, go the extra mile and invite refugee families into your home!


You left out an ‘s’ there


it was a deliberate omission, I dont know how many or where.

:bulb: it wouldnt even inconvenience him if he offered some of his gaffs as refugee centers…


Would he have to be a British subject to get a knighthood? Maybe he is already?


St. Peter has his honorary knighthood alright. … -1.1141329