Calais situation / Refugees, Syria and something else?


#2744

Mary McAleese: Irish people have ‘no right’ to be racist

‘We have to create new narrative around a reconciled Ireland where everyone is welcome’

Diversity in Ireland

Where diversity in Ireland and immigration were concerned, she was “actually very proud of Irish political leadership and Irish people generally on those issues”.

In Ireland “today, 17 per cent of our population comes from somewhere else. The last time that happened was probably the Plantation [of Ulster]. But this has been a different kind of absorption, and I think in general we have done a really, really wonderful job.”

That was not, however, to say “we have done a perfect job. That is not to say we don’t have racism in our midst. It’s not to say that some people coming here experience the kind of racism that breaks your heart and makes you say ‘hang on a minute, we were the people who were the victims of racism, whether it was in England, where it was ‘no Irish need apply’, or in America, wherever we went to. We have no right to behave like that,” she said.

The plantation metaphor is interesting from this one.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/mary-mcaleese-irish-people-have-no-right-to-be-racist-1.4093391?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


#2745

Tired of how this phrase is used as if it’s innocuous, when really it means ‘you are not thinking correctly’. Nobody has the right to be racist, but some of us are. The new narrative means what then in practice - selective suppression of free speech by the new narrators of those those deemed to be thinking incorrectly or not using the new narrative?


#2746

Rights are inalienable (not for former President McAleese to give or take away.)
[I think probably former President McAleese is aware of this, and has purposefully used this controversial phraseology to garner attention.]

All people (not just Irish) have the right to free speech.

With that freedom people can say all sorts of things; and people have the freedom to respond as part of their freedom of speech.


#2747

But they are going to grow up as Irish kids, are they not? I’m sure there will be a minority who won’t, but most will become as Irish as the Irish themselves.


#2748

Which stats are concerning?


#2749

Are modern day Americans as American as the native Americans themselves?


#2750

Exactly! Spot on… just like Northern Ireland.

What could possibly go wrong? :ninja:


#2751

Just what is racist about wanting to control migration numbers? Or the type of migrants that come? Makes sense to have a sustainable number especially with a housing crisis. People with similar or compatible cultures should be preferable too. Nothing wrong with that. Or at least lower numbers of incompatible cultures so they assimilate and become as Irish as the Irish themselves.

I actually don’t have a problem with migrants bringing their cultures over. Just not if it’s incompatible stone age crap


#2752

I don’t follow…whats the connection with Northern Ireland?
You mean the community that was planted in NI 300 years ago and pushed the natives off their land at the point of sword and pike?
Well, that was never going to work. Same as snaps’s point.


#2753

This analogy doesn’t work at all. A dominant culture overwhelmed another one, at the point of a gun, that was far less technologically advanced.

Current immigrants are coming into our country, and learning Irish (god love them) and our history, playing our games, and working in our communities. If they want a bit of land, they have to go into a bank like the rest of us and pay through the nose.

I don’t see us becoming “New Poland”, for instance. This is a bit hysterical.

On the other hand, I do agree that we should have a sustainable and controllable immigration policy. I just got my Residency for Australia - the forms, proof of id and proof of character that I needed to provide was onerous, but also oddly reassuring. I understood the intent and the policy. I’d be with Blindjustice here.

But if we want to apply this approach to EU citizens (even if this was legal), then we have the accept the reciprocal responses.

The reality is that we can actually control this through the EU 3 month rule - if we choose to implement it: after 3 months in the country EU migrants need to be either working, have a member of the family working or have sufficient funds to live (and have full sickness insurance). If not then they can be returned to their home country.

Belgium requires all migrants to register at their Town Hall within 3 months of entering the country and if they intend to work their claim will be assessed and will be processed within 6 months.

I was looking at moving to Sweden for work and saw they had a variation of this too. Most EU countries seem to have decided to implement this rule or a variant of it.


#2755

I’m sure originally the Native Americans thought we will do this, we will do that too.


#2756

This is Ireland, we don’t enforce rules. We don’t enforce this 3 month one.
We don’t enforce deportations for failed asylum seekers- we give them leave to remain.
We don’t manage the student visa scam which is just cover for illegal migration from Brazil, China etc.

We are guaranteed to make a balls up of immigration. As sure as night follows day


#2757

The corollary of your previous posting would be that Northern Ireland would not, should not, could not exist!


#2758

I really don’t follow.


#2759

I know.

Exhibit A: Northern Ireland.


#2760

Most of them, did not.

If all the colonies were run by Pilgrims, AND the Native Americans were still wiped out, then I could take your point.

Besides, you think the Polish couple and their 2 young kids down are going to be forcibly converting us to eat dumplings and cabbage rolls in the distant future?

Do you know any immigrants? Personally?


#2761

:thinking:

I’m sure if you have a point you’ll make it?

Your comment, “I know”, comes across as a bit patronizing, and I don’t believe I have exhibited the same.


#2762

Besides, you think the Polish couple and their 2 young kids down are going to be forcibly converting us to eat dumplings and cabbage rolls in the distant future?

But, it was you who said “but most will become as Irish as the Irish themselves.”’?

My point, to be more clear is that when 2 groups of humans mix. The identity and path of both groups are irrevocably changed. The settlers (who went on to become the Americans we know today) could always go back to England. The Native Americans could never go back to their original culture. Also, it was a one way migration, not a transmigration between the countries.

[ I know, and have know many immigrants and many emigrants, but I don’t think that’s particularly relevant to the topic of discussion. Why do you ask?]

WRT Ireland and our current immigration situation. IMHO, it would have been better if there had been a public debate and referendum on this issue 20 years ago.


#2763

I was being tongue-in-cheek with my Polish example - the idea they would not assimilate as being Irish, but instead force the Irish to follow Polish culture…

I’m not quite as worried that our people and culture are going to be badly diluted or changed, through immigration. Culture is always changing - television and radio has irrevocably changed the Irish cultural landscape and mores, and I’d argue that presents a much bigger dynamic than interaction with immigrants.

We do have 10s of thousands of Irish people living in Continental Europe, so we have a transmigration there. I’ve read there could be 500,000 Irish people living in Continental Europe but I need to see a solid stat to back that up.

Why I asked about you knowing immigrants personally, is if you have seen them engaging in Irish society, or exhibiting behavior and norms that you believe is a treat to Irish society and culture? That might be crudely put and I apologise for that.


#2764

knowing immigrants personally, is if you have seen them engaging in Irish society, or exhibiting behavior and norms that you believe is a treat to Irish society and culture?

There’s a lady from Poland I know who makes delicious cream cakes. The best. Lovely chocolate eclairs with white chocolate drizzled on top. They really are a treat for Irish society. I try not to eat them too often.