Child benefit cuts proposed by expert group

Sounds like you’re looking for a dictator. You imply that we need politicians who can defy the electorate. The voters ensure that they don’t last very long.

there are a number of people who’d vote for the party that does what’s right for the country, there are a number N people like this

there are a number of people who’d vote for the party that does what they find easiest to swallow and what’s best for their pockets and their pockets only (eg the tax everyone except me brigade), there are are a number M people like this

Which number do people think is bigger? N or M?

I didn’t welcome the Troika. However I thought if there was a positive to it then at least unpolitical decisions would be forced on the standard gombeen Irish politician who can’t see past the next election

I couldn’t have been more wrong


Nope I’m not - we need politicians who can defy minorities with vested interests for the benefit of society as a whole.

Though the same myself but have been seriously disappointed.

wheres my tax break for the extortionate costs of childcare.

i would like childcare savings to be ringfenced for childcare services please. there are children going to schools in this country whose parents are living in state housing, who are receiving benefits and whose children are still arriving in school hungry. stop handing out cash and start handing out services.

the legacy of FF and their handout elections. and they are just going to get back into power on the back of more promises to cut taxes, and the fear of SF.

Childcare costs are not extortionate, in a creche or at a childminders you are probably getting economies of scale as children are grouped together and the parents share the costs of the carers (who are usually not earning much more than minimum wage).

People just think they are high because it’s a job that is undervalued and used to be provided by mothers for free.

What you probably mean is that you would like the government to subsidise the cost to allow both parents to work outside of the home because one of you working inside the home is of less value to you.

However I agree with your point that children should get improved services from the state and that benefits don’t guarantee child welfare. Personally I’d like free GP visits for all children.

That only works if the ‘majority’ see it as a benefit to society as a whole. Which they don’t. Cuts are bad, m’kay?

Sorry don’t get you there? What do you mean?

I don’t know how accurate or up to date this is, but it would suggest that costs in Ireland are unreasonably high

so every child gets €110 per child as the standard rate(down from a current €130)…with families under 25k qualifying for a max top up of €38…and those over 35k qualifying for a portion of the €38 up to x level of income.
No taxation proposed

Not as savage as I thought it would be…cant see how it would save nay money but I’m sure they’ve done the sums to come up with that €200m figure. As said above, is that figure worth all the political flak that would come with it

Excellent graph FB

I believe in France you can hire a nanny, and write the full cost off against your tax bill. It would be fantastic if you could do something similar here. Ensure you exclude family etc, and up to a certain limit, but the benefits are obvious. Reduced child care. Increases people working, and off benefits. Arguably better childcare as better minder to child ratios would be on offer.

If someone on welfare costs the state 15k a year (for the sake of putting a number on it), then you could let someone write down their tax bill by 35.7k (assuming 42% margin tax rate and write off against income tax only) and still be break even in terms of direct tax gain vs welfare cost.

I’m not 100% sure that this is actually the case in France, but Im sure some of the French resident Pin members could let us know.

I’d happily give up the full child benefit for my two ankle biters if I could have free healthcare and free education for them.

This blog explains the comparison with other countries well and that the costs charged by childminders and creche’s is not unreasonable high (it’s the lack of government support that makes it higher than other countries). … n-ireland/

They could also give families tax credits to allow more parents to stay at home with their children or encourage more flexible working practices. This would also reduce unemployment and benefits paid.

Getting a proper minder in who the parents can trust to be reliable would be far more preferential in my book than a government subsidy.

My solution also doesn’t cost the state a penny. And gets people back to work. People with the luxury of a good job don’t always have the appreciation for having employment, as another job is usually easy to obtain if you already have had a good job. This isn’t going to suit everyone, but it opens up job opportunities without government interference.

It would be self regulating from a tax perspective, the parents only get the benefit if the nanny registers their income. We are meant to be looking for jobs right. We are great at bringing in jobs for google etc, well a couple doing that kind of work won’t really be interested in giving up one very lucrative job for a bit of a tax credit. But they would be very interested in getting a nanny in, pay them top dollar, get a tax benefit for doing so and carry on with their jobs. Google etc, law firms, high end accountancy firms don’t encourage flexible working practices. They encourage relentless work, if my audit days are anything to go by.

The tax forgone would cost the government money, but nonetheless I think it’s a great idea.

I think a lot of tertiary employment should be tax deductable. Pay someone to wash your windows, paint your windows or educate your kids - deduct from your tax payment.

I think it probably averages out at 50% to 60% of the cost against your tax bill. There are multiple ways to go about it, but if you employ the nanny directly - s/he must be recognized by the state - the cost is quite strictly controlled and the social contributions (about 21% of salary) are taken on by the state. Then you can write off about 50% of what you’ve paid against the following year’s tax bill. For the third child there’s additional help to the parents, and up to a child’s 6th birthday there’s some other subvention.

The tax breaks and subventions definitely help to formalise and regulate what could otherwise be a predominantly informal sector.

Sending your child to a private creche costs about 800 pm in France, of which the state pays about 140€. You can write off about 500 € against tax. And no children’s allowance if you have only one child!

In Belgium the costs of childcare are very low (€300/month, often less) and taxes are very high (55% or so). But child benefit is a lot lower than in Ireland (about €80 per child per month). Overall, it feels slightly better than Ireland because you don’t fork out €800 cash every month to an expensive crèche but the tax difference more or less wipes that out depending on what bracket you fall into. School/pre-school is free from the age of two and a half though so that’s a major saving.

On the idea of tax deductible tertiary services, Belgium has a scheme where you buy ‘tickets’ for around €7.50 (you can deduct the VAT @21%) which entitle you to an hour of domestic help of some kind. The person providing the service cashes these tickets in at an agency with which they are registered. Between cash and other social/health benefits I’ve heard it said - but cannot find a link! - that the tickets are worth about €20 to recipients who are effectively employees of the agency. Most people use the tickets for cleaning/ironing. I think you can get some home help after the birth of a child - and you’re entitled to a bunch of extra tickets when you have a baby.

The genius of this scheme is that it takes a service and service providers out of the grey economy and encourages people to use them. Normally if you formalise something and end an under-the-table cash culture it drives up the price and demand falls. But not with this scheme. People have cleaners in Belgium who wouldn’t dream of it if they lived in Ireland.

Those providing the services also get sick pay when they are sick, some paid holidays, and have the same health entitlements as anyone else. Plus if they earn enough to pay taxes, they pay taxes. Yes, it’s a government subsidy to have poor, usually non-Belgian, people clean the houses of the Belgian middle class but it’s a reasonably neat solution to several other problems (unemployment, under-the-table pay, job security and employment rights for low-paid casual immigrant workers). Alas, there are reports that it will be scaled back a bit as part of austerity measures.

As it is a very formal set up do you have to pay employer liability insurance and all that jazz?