Children Referendum Poll


#1

How wil you Vote on the upcomign Children Referendum

  • Yes
  • No
  • Spoil
  • Can not attend
  • Refuse to validate/recognise the State.

0 voters

(Continued form original thread here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=47309 )

I haven’t followed this debate via the MSM and I would naturally be opposed to further State intervention in anything at this stage since it has run amok.

This is an angle one of many that i hadn’t thought about but is alarming.

aps.ie/


#2

Most parents are not qualified to make decisions about matters like vaccination in any case, so I don’t see the problem. Just because a particular vaccine caused harm, is not reason to say that vaccinations should not be used. It’s like refusing to allow an appendicitis be operated on, even though statistics and best knowledge says that an operation is the way to save the life, because another child died due to a surgeon’s mistake.

Of course mistakes need to be investigated, negligence punished, systems improved. But allowing random punters to make decisions like this for third parties is daft.

Certainly I wouldn’t allow unvaccinated children (who are suitable for vaccination) into the school-system and would even be wary of allowing them access to the hospitals. It really becomes a case of whether you give parents the opportunity to deprive and endanger other individuals (their own children, and community) in this way.


#3

Without knowing the facts this sounds untrue and sounds like scaremongering.

As you might guess I’m pretty pro vaccination, but I dont see how this could trump your right to refuse treatment.

Where there is an immediate threat to the life of the child eg blood loss and a parent refuses a blood transfusion there is always a judge on standby to over rule the right of the parent in favor of the opinion of the senior Doctor. vaccination is different as there is no immediate threat of life to the child.

That said vaccination is a modern miracle and I feel strongly that parents should vaccinate their children as per Government recommendations which are bassed on the recommendation from doctors and bassed on the best available evidence at the time. For some like Polio we need heard immunity ie almost everyone vaccinated for it to protect children.

Its worth mentioning that the only disease to have been made effectively extinct is Smallpox achieved by an agressive vaccination program. Polio would be extinct were it not for Muslim clerics scaremongering in a couple of counties from time to time.

Dont forget the diseases that we are vaccinating against cause immense harm and suffering.


#4

I won’t be here and i haven’t followed the medja so anyone got any concise summaries?


#5

Lunatics+do-gooders+pointless judicial over-reach+indifference+vindication-on-the-teat-of-the-state=what constitutes debate in Ireland…

Stay well away from all chat, read the text, see what you think, vote accordingly.


#6

Basically The Irish State wants to look after the kidz but they’re not great at it, so… do you think they should, there is the danger that they might eat them.


#7

I should have linked to the main article, indymedia.ie/article/102657

Some of the comments are also interesting.


#8

If that is the case, people should be refused access to the country unless they have been vaccinated and screened for other illnesses such as HIV,TB etc?

If 30 kids in a class are vaccinated and 3 are not, surely the only kids at risk are the unvaccinated. So how are they endangering other individuals?

I have no issue having my kids vaccinated with BCG as it has been proven safe but what about when Swine flu or the next hysterical event occurs? The swine flu drugs were rushed to market and the companies indemnified from legal action if they caused adverse problems. If I am not mistaken Narcolepsy has been associated with the Swine flu vaccine which according to the HSE at the time was “perfectly safe” I’m sorry,but in an instance like this I do not want the state to have the power to use my child as a test subject.


#9

A serious of reasons to Vote NO form the aps.ie


#10

Really? I consider myself qualified to make a decisions on this. See how you feel if your child gets seriously ill after a vaccination.


#11

So does this pin poll predict a NO since we are often contrary to the main stream trend or are we looking at a crazy YES majority cast by a minority of voters?


#12

According to the proposed amendment

“In exceptional cases, where the parents, regardless of their marital status, fail in their duty towards their children to such extent that the safety or welfare of any of their children is likely to be prejudicially affected, the State as guardian of the common good shall, by proportionate means as proceeded by law, endeavor to supply the place of the parents”

This is wild in it’s reach and steadfastly the most duplicitous and utterly hypocritical in claim made.


#13

Just for the heck of it I predict a 42% turnout and a 65% YES.


#14

I think you’re right on the turnout, I think the yes will be above 70%

This is based on extensive review of previous 'pin polls and their error rates…


#15

Scientific method, eh? I’m impressed. I just pulled the numbers out of thin air, and I think you’re probably right about a larger YES vote.


#16

37% turnout and 82% yes.


#17

Most vaccines are pretty effective but nothing works 100% so there are always people who’ve had a vaccine but still get the disease. Typically these people (kids, usually) get a milder form of the disease so the vaccine wasn’t completely useless. However, if you get immunisation in a critical mass of the population then the disease can’t spread because it runs out of new victims to infection. (See here, useful short video)

One thing I learned recently is that not everyone can be vaccined. A friend of mine’s daughter has an immune system deficiency and can’t be vaccinated so if diseases are circulating she gets hit hard. She got H1N1 and was hospitalised and also got a serious dose of measles last year.

Children being treated for cancer (mercifully rare, obviously) also can’t be vaccinated. These people depend on herd immunity so it’s not fully true to say it doesn’t matter whether other kids in the class are immunised. And it’s not fair either to say that it’s up to each individual whether they are vaccinated because it’s a risk they are taking for themselves. It’s actually a risk they share with the community, to a certain extent.

Also, a family near where I live at the moment lost a very young baby who got whooping cough. she was too young to be vaccinated. Normally, even if you get whooping cough you’re grand - unless you’re a newborn and then it can be very serious. Again, it’s rare - but preventable.


#18

Rinderpest?

To be pedantic, the only human disease. :wink:


#19

It could well be.

I really don’t think people understand what they’re being asked to vote on. Giving rights to children? Sure, that sounds great. Taking rights from parents? Hmmm… don’t like the sound of that. The Catholic Church have been very luke warm about the issue, and I think conservative Ireland will take that to be a reason to stay at home. Voting on a Saturday is a bit of a wild card, and it might mean that the conservative element do come out and vote after all. I’m not seeing any passion for a YES vote and there is a scenario where the YES majority isn’t quite as large as we might assume…

My 2 cents…


#20

Yes, but are foreign visitors who have not been vaccinated going to banned from our shores? When it comes to the BCG almost everybody in the country vaccinates their children hpsc.ie/hpsc/A-Z/VaccinePreventable/Vaccination/ImmunisationUptakeStatistics/ImmunisationUptakeStatisticsSummary/File,954,en.pdf therefore the logic would be most parents are responsible. So why should the government now decide it wants the control to forceably vaccinate people?

Unfortunately for this child she will pick up everything and the common cold will knock her for six. Chest infections will be be a major part of her life.

I get your point that they agree they depend on herd immunity but the common cold could kill these children. They are also kept in hospital and isolated and don’t mix with the general population almost all of whom have been vaccinated according to the statistics.

A tragedy and yes it is extremely rare because people are getting vaccinated already.

As I stated my children will all get their vaccinations because they have been proven to be safe and I believe it is necessary however I don’t believe the Government has the right to forceably vaccinate anybody. The Government and HSE have all been proven many times not to have the best interest of the country or its children at heart and I simply do not trust them to act in my or my children’s best interest. That is my decision and I want it to remain that way.