Childrens Hospital Refused Planning


#126

Because it makes medical sense to co-locate children’s hospitals with adult ones.

Or so any doctor I have ever spoken to says.

It is also quite suitable for the half a million of us who live inside the M50:)


#127

So, eh…you know this new Children’s Hospital that’s being colocated with St. James’s…? Do I want to know who owns that?


#128

That as far as I’m aware will have a completely separate and independent board. Ownership will be retained by the state.

No religious institution will be involved (as far as I’m aware)


#129

Discussion on the maternity hospital split to here viewtopic.php?f=54&t=66823


#130

saw a lot of the usual goons banging on about the lack of sprinkler system in the new hospital - Prof John “Ego the size of Manhattan” Crown for example. As usual, it takes a while before someone with relevant knowledge contributes to the “public debate”


#131

There are a few holes in what she is saying
For one not many sneaky cigarettes or toasters on operating theaters
Surely fire alarms would be heat and smoke detection ?
Zonal sprinklers would only come on in the areas affected thereby saving the remainder of the hospital and reducing the need to evacuate the remainder of the hospital

The costs are crazy not because of the fire suppression system it due to the stupid curves probably doubling the cost, GCCC contracts, HSE and too many other cooks.
Great ormonde street building 120 bed hospital for 190 m sterling

constructionenquirer.com/201 … t-phase-4/


#132

The cost of the National Childrens Hospital are spiralling like the National Maternity Hospital (though they haven’t even broken ground on the latter). Today’s IT has a leaked memo to Cabinet warning that the additional costs will delay, well, practically every other capital project in the health sector. Is this leak an effort to loosen the purse-strings? And will the Gardai be called in to investigate this breach of Cabinet Confidentiality - not merely a crime but an attack on Bunreacht na hEireann, as amended by the People of Ireland twenty years ago.
Will the Taoiseach correct the record of the Dail. He said this week that “the new overall cost… is €1.433 billion”. According to the leaked memo:

Who’s to blame for the overruns?

Guess who was responsible for the failed original (i.e. 650M.) estimate? The same project board! And how much more needs to be spent before we agree that the wrong site was chosen? Ah shure, what’s an extra 300 Million? Think of the sick babies!

And what about the proposed alternative i.e. building alongside the Connolly Hospital near Blanchardstown? We were told that would be completely unsuitable but then they decided to move the Rotunda to Connolly. And now it turns out that will take up to 10 years (what do you bet?) and

irishtimes.com/news/health/ … -1.3595092

Would this happen if a real estate developer was Taoiseach? Say one with global experience from Manhattan to Doonbeg?


#133

Someone seasoned in public capital shenanigans once told me that: “the only thing worse than a hole in the ground is half a hole in the ground”


#134

€1.7bn…jeez that eyesore at the Mater was only gonna cost €0.7bn with a Metro station included in the basement. :frowning:


#135

It gets worse:

irishtimes.com/opinion/pasc … -1.3747872

And what about the National Maternity Hospital? That was going to cost €150 Million but then they moved it to the other side of the city and suddenly it was 300 Million.
irishtimes.com/news/health/ … -1.2982735
Now, the 300 Million is subject to “construction inflation”
independent.ie/irish-news/h … 39970.html
Or is that 350 Million?
irishmirror.ie/news/irish-n … n-13771888
What are the chances of finishing this project for less half a billion?

Ah shure, what harm? So long as there’s no nuns and no Mass!


#136

What chance of getting these costs under control when the top manager thinks it’s all normal

Where on earth is €6,500 per sq m normal?

irishtimes.com/news/health/ … -1.3767872


#137

I’m always dubious when problems with big projects are attributed to a small group of incompetents. It’s possible but it seems a bit too neat.

Are the cost overruns down to builders padding invoices systematically?


#138

Why haven’t BAM being called in? Where’s the forensic accountants on comparing the new costs to the old so an exact summary of where the over runs are occurring can be seen?
Where’s that useless pile of dung, Simon Harris on this? The Minister who said he won’t put a price on completing the hospital and effectively wrote a blank cheque.

How are there not riots on the streets over this epic screw up :imp:


#139

Id say the chances of the Mater costing 0.7 billion were 0 or soem figure with a lot of zeros i.e. 2,000,000,000


#140

Because it’s not taxpayers’ money - its all borrowed, and at close to zero interest (grazie mille, Mario!).
If we actually had to pay for it ( @ 1,000 Euro per household, and rising), we would see protests to dwarf the water charges.

The only problem? Europe is limiting our magic credit card. :frowning: So we have to “delay” other capital projects. The health mafia thought they could grab money from outside the health budget (think about the sick babbies! Pay the nurses more! No, I mean more more), but everyone sees through their game so now we are reading about all the health projects which are long-fingered i.e. won’t start before the next election, the only timescale that counts. (How’s that Cath Lab going, Waterford?) . You’ll see lots of local protests and promising political careers will be ended, but it will be a scramble, not a national campaign.


#141

As far as I can ascertain, Harris has literally zero experience of any kind of work other than being a Fine Gael politician (maybe he had a summer job in Spar or something); he definitely doesn’t even have an undergraduate degree. So obviously this is why we put him in charge of a €16 billion organisation at the age of 30.


#142

@theschmuck
Wiki says,
[, at Dublin Institute of Technology, Aungier Street

](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Harris_(politician))


#143

Incomplete afaik, possibly not even lasting 1 year. I wonder did his PR team use the ambiguous language in the wiki entry.


#144

Stockholm currently holds the world record at 2.2bn for a hospital. We’re going to smash that and not 1 person will have been fired, resigned, pension stopped, demoted

Health chief ‘can’t guarantee Children’s Hospital will cost less than €2bn’
independent.ie/breaking-new … 69675.html


#145

Legal proceedings have already begun by local residents apparently who have suffered building damage from the ongoing works so you can a little more to the costs there. Traffic issues around the area are also apparently worse than originally envisaged. I’ve only passed the site twice and got stuck once myself.

Discussion on it with Pat Kenny and Dr. Finn Breathnach both of whom opposed the current location at the top of the show.
newstalk.com/listen_back/13 … ow_Part_1/