Childrens Hospital Refused Planning


#21

Bertie wanted it, Harney fully supported it. Other than that, there was never much public or clinical backing for the NCH at the Mater.

However, once Drumm became CEO of the HSE he was suddenly a huge proponent of the NCH at the Mater as was Karl Anderson.

Funny what giving someone a job can do to change their strongly held opinions.

Each and every report was biased from its inception for a variety of reasons unfortunately. After €35m on planning and consultancy, we still don’t truly know the costs, benefits and drawbacks of placing the NCH at several types of locations in Dublin.


#22

Haven’t been following this closely enough but do I get the impression that they used the new Strategic Infrastructure process which bypasses the councils as planning authority and goes straight to ABP? Do I guess that they carried over the no-lobbying process around ABP into this expanded role? i.e. not only is there no mechanism for pre-decision consultations but it might even be illegal.
Just speculation on my part - anyone know?


#23

here are some of the highlights of the inspectors report

anyone ever get down the M1 in 38 mins?


#24

Surely they would have hired planning consultants after an open competition for tender, and would probably have had to draft an Environmental Impact Assessment of some description. I haven’t a clue who they hired though.

Perhaps their contribution was as simple as:
Children’s hospital committee: We’ve saved you the hassle and drafted a visual impact report for you. Sign here please
Planning Consultant: No problemo. Can I have my fee now?


#25

AFAIK Murray O’Laoire Architect won the lead contract … and promptly went bankrupt
dont know who replaced them


#26

Nobody brings a sick child up to Dublin from the country on the train. Just like people don’t go to James’ for their cancer treatment by public transport.

Besides which, James’ is a short hop on the Luas from Heuston and Connelly…

James’ would seem to be the ideal location transport wise - it is not a million miles away from Crumlin Children’s (so close in fact that one wonders if they could be administratively considered co-located…). On the other hand, the Coombe is moving out to Tallaght and one of the pre-reqs of the new site was supposed to be that it was co-located with a maternity hospital…


#27

Probably not. But if you’ve a sick kid in a hospital & your visiting them daily, they might not drive up every day, not if one parent has to get to work every day, then the other has to get in to visit.

No major hospital in Dublin should be more than one-hop via public transport from a mainline station like Heuston or Connelly. If a hospital doesn’t have plentiful & free car parking, which no hospital in Dublin has; then it needs to have excellent & short public transport links.

Ultimately for parents the problem is not where the hospital is, within certain limits, but the quality of care their child gets, & how quickly they get it.

Right now we will have the worst of all worlds, a slow, undersized & half-assed childrens hospital, with no critical element done well. Not well staffed, not easily accessed & undersized. There’s acres of land out where the Bertie bowl was originally intended to be built, its off the M50, its relatively easily accessible. I don’t understand why the Dail can’t pass a bill designating a part of the area a ‘special development zone’ & just exclude it from regular planning laws & just get the fucking hospital built :exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation:

I listened to the clowns waffling about how it shouldn’t be a big deal to just change the original plans & reduce it from a 5xx room building to a 4xx room building & how it was no big deal :unamused: Now, as an Engineer, I have a pretty low opinion of architechs, but even I know that reducing a building plan by 20% takes a little more than a few hours, & the idea that something that previously took a few years can now be done in a couple of months a gigantic pile of shit :exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation: :exclamation:

I’m sick of hearing how the Democratic process must be observed, when we all know that ABP was set up to allow the TDs & councillors to fuck about with the process while appearing to keep their hands clean. ABP is a bunch of asshole marionets who need to be told what the desired result is before they can make a decision :unamused:


#28

They refused it because it would “negatively impact on the skyline of Dublin”…!

WOW

+1

Why is everyone on about traffic & trains? It got rejected because the planners dont like how it will look


#29

this NCH has already cost the state 35m . no doubt in over the top consultancy fees for muppets who deliver shag-all.

I’m all for a NCH, but wasting 35m before a sod is overturned is a fucking scandal, the HSE has a habit of paying large euros to professional consultants as in the PPARS scam.

what could we have got for 35m?
35m could fund 350 small business ideas through enterprise ireland or 10 big disruptive industrial/academic research projects through SFI, an extra 10 yoyos in everyone’s back pocket. It probably cost each family 50 quid, its like handing the parasites a large birthday gift.

ABP should be part of the design process and their guidelines should be known by the so-called professional bodies. Everyone involved in this scam should be liable for failing to comply with ABP guidelines.

Wasnt NAMA-cheerleader Harry Crosbie the developer involved in building this NCH?


#30

Who told them to turn the application down? Perhaps it was FF?


#31

Stop bickering about the site and just build the fucking hospital already.


#32

No, do it right once and the first time.


#33

I suspect that it suits the government to have current plan rejected. I get the impression that they would be happy to either kicks this down the road or at worst build a cheaper version.
The worst of all worlds for the citizen. 35 million spent to decide on the location and design, and then we end up with a comparatively subpar version in a less than ideal location.


#34

not sure if this has been mentioned earlier about our notional national paediatric hospital.

rte.ie/news/2012/0416/swords … pital.html

everybody seems to be testing the water by throwing nebulous alternatives to the media. last week it was coombe/james’s. mater offer was reconfigured so there was a larger footprint.

at least these are known players. but broadmeadow healthcare??

broadmeadow.ie/

anybody know who these guys are? only one i know is martin corbally (he of the wrong kidney fame) who currently resides in bahrain. the group seems to be oriented towards nursing home care and has done some projects in niger… hardly someone you’d entrust with several hundred milion euro project.

anyone have any thoughts on where this is going?


#35

So it turns out St James’ is the new favourite for the National Children’s Hospital.

The Mater have blown €70m in their bid. FFS. How could they spend that much?

rte.ie/news/2012/1101/dolphi … eport.html


#36

They? You really think they spent it?

‘Private’ looks at best semi-state in a lot of Irish ‘businesses’…


#37

If it can’t be at the Mater, I think James’s is a good location.
It should be central, readily accessible from as many places as possible (not just by car) and tied into a decent existing hospital. James’s is on an existing Luas line, very close to the main train station, readily accessible from the N4, N7 and not too bad from the M50. There are also a wide number of bus routes in the area. Not sure about the site size and range of specialities in the hospital, but as far as I remember, the site is at least bigger than the Mater’s site and adult specialities in the hospital can be built up in tandem with the children’s hospital.


#38

Got to ask, whose constituency is James’s in? Doesn’t seem like anyone important:

 Mr. Joe Costello
Party: The Labour Party

Mr. Paschal Donohoe
Party: Fine Gael (2011)

Ms. Mary Lou McDonald
Party: Sinn Féin (2011) 

Ms. Maureen O'Sullivan
Party: Independent

#39

Wrong side of the city

TDs are
Catherine Byrne (FG)
Michael Conaghan (Lab)
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (SF)
Eric Byrne (Lab)
Joan Collins (PBP)


#40

Woops. Thanks for that.

Still no-one who stands out.