CIF & Parlon Again

independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/business/cif-calls-on-government-to-deliver-ndp-1484078.html

I actually agree with this to some degree. I dont think they need to go go mad building roads and metros to nowhere for the sake of it (like North Korea) but Ireland does need infrastructure and there are plenty of people at the moment at a loose end who could be diverted into this area. But can Ireland afford it? Probably not in the short term anyway.

FM

Play complete hardball over pricing is a simple way to save money on infrastructure. If its good enough for someone playing 2 firms off against each other trying to get an extension built why can it not be done when tax payers money is concerned?

Unfortunately “Value for money” doesn’t seem to be in their vocabulary

Oh come off it… Generally competitive tenders are standard and that’s not because of Irish law but OJEU rules, check out the capital projects guidelines from the Department of Finance, etc…

Mind you, you’d probably prefer the model whereby you accept the lowest tender and damn the consequences. That gets you GAMA construction and we all know what happened there…

TUG, is this why we got a small holed port tunnel?

TUG, it may be true for large capital projects (although the scam in the UK where the large builders were rigging bids to ‘take turns’ on the projects suggests it isn’t), but it isn’t true at local level. The councils are packed with nods and winks and ‘if you put it in at this level you’re bound to get it’ stuff. Sure half the local councillors in every council are developers or related to them.

edit - I am suggesting that the poor value for some capital projects comes more from rigged bids than from any public sector incompetence. Personally, I think the roads program has been well run and that the project managers from the NRA should be put in charge of many more infrastructure projects and they should be taken out of the hands of councillors.

edit2 - you also have to remember when dealing with us country folk that our experience of dealing with the public service is generally the councils. Lovely new offices, lots of people pushing paper around, holes in the roads, bad water supply, poor sewage systems, dirty towns, no you can’t build a house - sell the land to that developer and he will build one and sell it back to you.

That’s poor design, no proof of concept and nothing to do with procurement. The port tunnel was a terrible idea IMHO in the first instance but cribbing about value for money doesn’t deal with the crazy schemes that get approved…

While I have sympathy for you “country folk”, in fairness, we are talking about the NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN here!! :angry:

Go back and read some of 2Pack’s posts as to what is in the NDP. XX

Instead of thinking national politics, it would probably be quicker just to think of a disparate crowd of pigs from all over the country at the one trough. The best we can hope is that they get foot and mouth.

I don’t need 2Pack’s posts to know what’s in the NDP, it’s only speculation as to what will be cut and tbh, I don’t really care about the majority of it, Dublin, Dublin, Dublin, spend the money, METRO, METRO, METRO!!!

Jobs and decent public transport provision that will help underpin some of the property valuations…

I rest my case :angry:

In fairness Parlon has been quiet recently. He must have gotten what he wanted wrt the FTB bailout. And he has of course the ace up his sleve. If he doesnt get what he wants he can just shaft the pay “deal”. However I think he would be doing a favor if he shafted the pay deal. Its a crap deal.

Maybe thats what Cowen has in mind. No FTB bailout. CIF torpedos pay deal. Parlon/CIF to blame. FF look like they tried to appease the unions. Everyone except the CIF happy. But who cares about them. They have no money to contribute to FF money machine any more anyway so f__k them.

Am I too cynical?

FM

Well if I want a return on investment, value for money, the country will have to prove it’s own fundamentals, we can’t afford regionalism right now.

You’re right there. Personally, I’d close all the local councils down and administer the lot from the furthest away big town or the nearest big town but with officials imported from far away - like they do with the Gardai to prevent cronyism.

If the CIF have unused spare capacity willing to work to save the economy, perhaps they can now offer to do public works for free. I remember the days of my childhood and youth in a country formerly known as Yougoslavia, public works (for free, except matgerials) were a norm in infrastructure projects. It was great for the economy and I fully endorse it as a market based solution! That would give an opportunity to construction workers to pay back some of the wages they earned in the times supply/demand was working in their favour.

presumably the workers were paid the going-rate? But what was the sweetner for the developers. Surely they didn’t do it from the goodness of their hearts? I can hardly imagine such a thing.

Now your taking the piss,if anyone ever looked at what it costs(or should i say gets charged) the OPW to paint a few walls,throw in a few sockets,put up a stud wall or 2 etc, they could be nothing more than shocked.These lads are taking the piss bigtime.

Workers got a pin saying the Party was grateful for the service. Generally the work was undestood to be volonteered. There was no coertion. There were no developers as such as construction firms were state owned. No own could have owned a company with more than 10 employees.

Interesting about Yugoslavia - I often thought I would have liked to give something back for the State (or the taxpayers) for subsidising my education, particularly for paying most of my University fees. I did in the sense that I stayed here afterwards and paid taxes, but if the deal had been (say) give 1 year of voluntary work (building, teaching, whatever) for 4 years Uni fees, I would have thought that to be fair and reasonable.
Even now would it be such an imposition if there were a culture of, say, sabbaticals where it was considered normal to give a year of your time and skills every so often to something for the public good, either in Ireland or as part of our contribution to foreign aid?
The best jobs I ever had were ones where you could look back with pride and say “We made that!” The least satisfying were the ones where I made a shitload of money through some quirk in the financial system while doing very little actual work. (Easy come, easy go, alas).
Maybe this is getting too philosophical or political for this forum… db.

My parents paid for my ‘free’ education through the nose. Years and years of crappy wages, 60% taxes etc. and ultimately my mother now receives a 300E state pension in a country that isn’t that cheap at all. Having spent 3/4 of her working life under socialism, she has no private pension on life policy, not that she could have had afforded one anyway. So **** the state. I owe them nothing.

Provided you are not gambling and you know what you’re doing, making financial moves is working. I don’t consider that work only occurs if the product can be experienced in a physical sense.

Indeed.

I don’t particularly care about “The State” - I do care about my community, however wide it may be defined.

The less satisfying income I referred to came from being in the right place at the right time, or pure bloody chance such investing in random IT shares during the boom times - as you suggest “Gambling”. Evaluating an opportunity, doing research, investing and managing the investment - yes those ones were satisfying so I am not knocking people who work in finance.