Coronavirus 2020


#1168

The CCP may be mendacious lying bastards but the Chinese doctors and medical researchers have done a fantastic job of passing on and publishing what they have learned in the last three months or so treating COVID.

Here is the first published clinical handbook for treatment of COVID-19 based on recent experience in China.

https://covid-19.alibabacloud.com/

This will give you a very good idea of what should and should not be happening, and why, if anyone gets sick in the near future and needs hospitalization, For these kind of medical reference books it is very clearly written. Basically a field hospital treatment manual.


#1169

Can anyone believe the UK figures. 200 deaths out of 4000 positives. Germany has 75 deaths out of 20000. The true death rate is sub 1% unless the health system is overwhelmed. 200 deaths means 20000 over 7-10 days ago.


#1170

With the exception of China, i don’t think anyone has introduced compulsory testing.
Just looking at this site https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/685d0ace521648f8a5beeeee1b9125cd
every country except China shows a steeply rising trend.

Edit, just come across this chart.

It throws suspicion over Germany’s numbers, The UK’s numbers are in the field that We should expect if there is only reactive testing, like most other countries.


#1171

I saw this interesting comparison today of the running total of COVID deaths in two countries, 14 days apart. I hope that this trend doesn’t persist for the UK’s sake as the Italian numbers for the last 2 weeks have been awful.

Italy UK
Date Total no. of deaths Total no. of deaths Date
1st March 34 35 15th March
2nd March 52 53 16th March
3rd March 79 71 17th March
4th March 107 104 18th March
5th March 148 144 19th March
6th March 197 184 20th March
7th March 233 233 21st March

#1172

Its more likely that the real numbers are in the region of southkorea whos figures are reliable and they did a huge amount of testing. It still probably did not pick up many very mild cases. Which brings not only the uk figures into question but France, Netherlands and Spain. Things are out of control in Italy so the true figure is hard to know


#1173

Italy closed up lombardy on the 8th, but there willbe differences in how things progress due to cultural differences. The outcome may be the same.


#1174


Quarantine was done too late and too relaxed. Infections are everywhere, the train is running very fast and you can’t just stop it. The data is just tip of the iceberg:

Worst of all, the rest of Italy is following same curve. COVID impact is not only direct full scale of the disaster will be seen after few months when we compare first half of 2020 to average from previous years.


#1175

This story was on the 10 news on BBC. The newsreader after it was on the verge of tears as well. She held it together. On the 10 news the husband raised the point that his wife was described as having "preexisting conditions’ but that many people in their 50s will have had something wrong with them.

I mean I’m taking 10mg of statins. Will I be described as having “preexisting conditions” ?

It’s a quiet time of the year on RIP.ie - 4 pages yesterday, 3 today. A death will often be listed twice - once for their home place and again for where they died. Let’s pray that, against the odds, it stays quiet.


#1176

Like ‘high blood pressure’, or ‘high cholesterol’, its a doctors way of saying what used to be termed ‘alcoholic’.

Your liver function is ‘not-optimal’, likely because of alcohol intake, so they give you statins.

Stop drinking.

Sorry for the honesty.


#1177

You may be honest but you’re not psychic. I barely drink. I haven’t had a drop since Christmas. According to my doctor ‘you have the blood pressure of a teenage boy’ ie perfect.

I do eat a fair amount of sugar so that could be related if it’s the Liver thats causing it. But then I have a brother on a statins and he’s not a sugar fiend or drinker.


#1178

“9% of the US Has Been Laid Off Due to the Coronavirus.” Yikes!

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=23b10fd3-4f50-43a0-b722-64b5a9fc143d


#1179

Fwiw I think the British model is mad. It should be unemployment assistance only. With debt repayment holiday and rent holiday for anyone laid off. The state could pay such people’s mortgage interest or BTL interest of their landlord so the banks look solvent . We can’t afford to go wild on our measures

Imagine though. We kept our borders open for our tourism industry and to keep the globalists happy. But it resulted in destroying the wider economy, including tourism.


#1180

Edit: Test results still not in.

Jesus, this story doesn’t look good. A 39 year old lady in New Orleans. She seemed relatively healthy except for a case of Giardia, which usually passes quickly enough. Seemed to die within a week from first feeling the symptoms of the coronavirus. Couldn’t get tested at the start and then, test results that she took a few days later didn’t get back in time. Not sure it would have mattered as she felt well enough to go out for a walk with her partner the day before she died so likely wouldn’t have gone to the ICU. It may have encouraged her to check her oxygen levels though if she had a positive result.

Giardia is almost never fatal but it may have weakened her immune system enough to give the coronavirus a good foothold.


#1181

Perhaps I’m not understanding your point, but I don’t think this is the right perspective.Tourists and business travelers spread this virus, and the question is whether or not the borders should have been shut earlier. Flying back and forth to Italy when we knew the virus was well established there was bordering on criminal.

But its got nothing to do with globalism or whatever you’re having. The 1968 and 1957 events predate any modern notions of globalism.

Basically trade and the exchange of services has always made a pandemic an ever present issue, and the scale of this one is exacerbated by the expansion of air travel in recent years.

What makes this so frustrating is that, even in this forum in January, we knew this could be big, outside China. And yet, govts seemed almost frozen with indecision, not helped by a large dose of complacency on the part of their populations and most of their media.

Governments can’t seem to make decisions in a timely way. The Buzzfeed article quoted earlier is an eyeopener; its like they were winging it in the UK.


#1182

Everybody knew it will be bad, no one wanted to act first and kill the economy. Moreover some despite obvious facts lead to higher spread - especially France/Spain via stupid actions like allowing massive gatherings or elections. All hands on deck to protect the markets.
Markets crashed anyway, virus is everywhere and now we are closing down. Where Korea is kind of working if I read the signals from there.

I was watching CNN last evening. They were talking about possibility of some sort of an executive order to “make medical supplies” similar to WW2.
Not sure it would help now, but this is definitely something to consider to recover and prepare for next winter.


#1183

Yes, but it goes back to the basics of crisis management with respect to an epidemic/pandemic. There should have been fairly clear recommendations on mitigation versus suppression, based on modelling, prior to this event. R0, CFR and suppression techniques in China provide raw data, that should have led to trigger points for action. Did no-one in govt, anywhere, put together even a notional framework for handing this?

EDIT: It seems that South Korea did plan for this.


#1184

Sorry but I dont think this stands up to any genuine consideration. Any comparison between those Asian countries that have dealt competently with the matter and the European countries that have become the epicentre of this thing shows that limitations placed on peoples ability to cross borders ie freedom of movement in EU parlance, is chief amongst the differences in approach between the two.

We have quotes from Coveney, Harris and Varadkar rejecting the notion that such limitations on cross border travel would be a proportionate response . Theyre now (a month later) at a point where they are moving toward imposing a form of martial law whilst the borders remain open.

I think its safe enough to say that a lifetime of social and political indoctrination in the values and principles espoused by the broader EU ie some of the pillar societal norms and values of the current political establishment, have coloured the approach to this aspect of the response.

While I dont think now is the time for this aspect of the discussion there will come a time, when this crisis has ended, that a public debate around these issues will be required.


#1185

We’ll have to disagree.

When it came to preparation, it helped that South Korea had one hell of a practice run: the MERS outbreak in 2015 that caused 38 deaths. At the time, the incompetent response by the conservative administration of then President Park Geun-hye put South Korea in the ignominious position of having the greatest number of cases outside of the Middle East. The fallout, which contributed to the public distrust of government that culminated in Park’s impeachment and removal, pushed the South Korean government to significantly revamp its preparation for the next viral event.

South Korea has been preparing for a potential new strain of coronavirus since as early as November 2019. Without knowing what virus would hit the country next, the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) devised an ingenious method of testing for any type of coronavirus and eliminating known strains of coronavirus such as SARS or MERS to isolate the new variant of coronavirus.

For the first four weeks of the outbreak, South Korea marshaled high-tech resources to respond aggressively while promoting transparency. The government tracked the movements of travelers arriving from China, for example by tracking the use of credit cards, checking CCTV footage, or mandating they download an app to report their health status every day. For those infected, the government published an extremely detailed list of their whereabouts, down to which seat they sat in at a movie theater.

The info was also presented (with names removed) in an interactive website that allows the public to trace the movement of every single individual with coronavirus. To be sure, there were real privacy concerns—as when one unfortunate patient in Daejeon had news of their visit to a risqué lingerie store blasted to every smartphone in their city. Yet on balance, these disclosures did much to calm the nerves and prevent unnecessary panic in the population. By Feb. 17, South Korea’s tally of COVID-19 patients stood at 30, with zero deaths. Ten patients were fully cured and discharged, with some of the discharged patients declaring the disease was “not something as serious as one might think.” The government seemed ready to declare victory.

That’s the result of adequate planning.

Patient 31 and the aftermath is interesting, and to be fair, hard to plan for.


#1186

Our leaders are specialised in PR and fights for power. Just like general public - everybody looking for themselves. Now they are all “surprised”. In Poland our health minister is giving more and more grim info to the public to avoid big panic. However they don’t seem prepared enough behind, which is worrying.

btw… China is really getting back to work, click to see full album or check tomtom src:



#1187

Its worth noting that Taiwan, located off the coast of China, has managed to contain this, and that a robust policy of border control was essential to achieving this. Same applies to each of those Asian countries, all located close to China, who have managed to limit the spread of this thing within their own national territories.