Dail vote on the Bailout? Constitution?

I saw in another post that there was not going to be a Dail vote on the bailout.

Does anyone know how Article 29 section 5 & 6 of the constitution applies in this case?

  1. 1° Every international agreement to which the State becomes a party shall be laid before Dáil Éireann.
    2° The State shall not be bound by any international agreement involving a charge upon public funds unless the terms of the agreement shall have been approved by Dáil Éireann.
    3° This section shall not apply to agreements or conventions of a technical and adminstrative character.
  2. No international agreement shall be part of the domestic law of the State save as may be determined by the Oireachtas.

Excellent point.

Anyone know how this obvious contradiction has been explained away? Or is it just that they are hoping no one will have noticed?

The NTMA already has a derogation to act on behalf of the Dail in raising funding. There have long been mutterings that the NTMA itself is unconstitutional, but nothing has ever come of it.

What is more interesting is not the funding, but the conditions attached. With a quarterly progress assessment, that might come under article 29?

We need to get Pearse Doherty on the case.

You think this can be stopped? Pull the other one. The constitution is worthless, there are much bigger forces at play.

He’s on a roll alright. Could we get him to play the euromillions for us every week?

The money from the EU and IMF is one thing, but I would have thought that the loans from Denmark Sweden and the UK were bilateral agreements between sovereign governments. Surely these would fall under Section 29 of the Constitution and require a Dail vote?

Spineless and toothless though it be, if FG/LAB/SF and the inds agreed a 3 line whip full on all the way to the budget then this would fall. I think it is worth having the vote in any event, using the 3 line would force it on to the order paper.

I read earlier on the IT that Pat Rabbitte had questioned the constitutionality of the bailout deal. Can’t find the article now though :frowning:

Here it is. Maybe he read my post!
irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre … ing39.html

Minister Andrews said this evening that the Govt has taken legal advice and that there is no constitutional requirement for this agreement to be put to a Dail vote.

Thus the budget vote becomes a vote by proxy on the EU/ IMF deal.

They are going to lost the vote unless the “only show in town” spin catches on. Unlikely, nut not impossible I guess.

or if FF just abandoned the whip! god i hate the whip system

And so it shall be. Just heard on lunchtime Sinn Féin are to challenge the constitutionality of the bailout without a Dáil vote.

I’m starting to warm to these fellas but that wouldn’t be hard considering the weather :slight_smile:

Sorry, they’re considering a constitutional challenge:

Any chance of a referendum? FF are taking the piss in terms of valuing our democracy. I wouldn’t mind declaring them an illegal organisation.

As long as people remember it was FF through their incompetence and lies invited Sinn Féin in and gift them some credibility;
through this 85bn and not holding the bye-election…