Developers on the radio showing their softer side

I mentioned yesterday Paddy Kelly was on Dunphy I heard some the re run, and a lot of it was very very soft focus. Paddy started off making the tea on the site for the lads times werent easy etc.
Well who turned up on Marion Finnucane today but Séan Dunne currently working in South African with the Niall Mellon project again very soft focus but he did say that he and his backers had put up a third of the equity for the Ballsbridge sites, we all heard Mr Kelly say that Anglo were going to surprise us all with their results. Mr Dunne said he was very well positioned and he and his bankers were happy with the situation.
Two developers within 24 hours on the main radio station in the state singing the same songcoincidence???

Of course they’re going to “surprise” us with their results. Come Wednesday, we’ll see Anglo declaring more huge profits. Does this mean that they’re fundamentally sound? No, of course not. All they’re simply doing is trying to brush the impaired loan book under the carpet.

If anyone seriously believes that the Anglo-Irish impairment charge of 0.13% will cover bad loans, they’re deluded.

“Building sites (in the 60’s/70’s) were happy, magical places.” Indeed Paddy. :neutral_face:

IS that an actual quote?

I wonder if Sean brought a suitcase of bananas to South Africa.

Séan was on about he started with Niall Mellon helping the brickies yesterday but after only one day they promoted him to being in charge of them,not sure about the bananas but he sleeps soundly at night and said something when asked bout the planning appeal what will be will be.

According to the Independent a bunch of 50 will do nicely.

Irish Times Article:

Sean Dunne sees Iceland style crisis here in Ireland.

Also he is backing up his buddies in the banks saying they should be relied upon to sort out the mess. (He probably has to do this because if the big boys in certain banks get fired then those ballsbridge properties may be forclosed.)

It would also appear that the love in between Dunne and Fianna Fail is somewhat fragile based upon his comments about the governments performance.

Of course he is in no way responsible for the banking crisis or running up prices. (Yeah right). He still reckons he has equity in that Ballsbridge mess. He may be forced to “release” the equity soon enough. This will be made worse if Iceland type crisis emerges in Ireland. (Personally I dont see Iceland style crisis in Ireland because of euro currency.)

And of course economists are idiots (unless they worked on a building site and can do basic math). This from a guy who allegedly wont get his shoes dirty on a building site these days. (Source for that little gem is the book entitled “The Builders”. Cant remember the author’s names. )

Link to Irish Times Article here…

Those fundamentals are surely sound…


I wish people would stop using charity as a form of anti-asshole insurance.

From memory it is, Mr Window. I’ll see if I can get the pod cast. It made me so warm inside.

i have heard of people going in and buying hundreds of thousands of pounds of physical gold at london dealers.are the likes of these developers putting up a cool face in the press while they cash in their personal assets into untraceable gold before the banks get them with their personal gaurantees?
they are insolvent for all intents and purposes. the loans were roll over loans for a defined period of time that were to be renegotiated. the liquidity to pay these loans is nonexistant along with banks willingnes/ability to renegotiate is now in the end game.

I have severe reservations about the Niall Mellon trust,

It’s a form of voluntourism with dubious benefits for the South African economy, imagine if in the darkest days of the eighties heaps of Americans came here to build houses for the poor Irish while the dole was chocca block with paddy brickies.

Apart from the Carbon footprint (a side issue for those of you Global warming ostriches) the ticket price for each of these consience salvers would be better spend donated to a housing trust in South Africa or on paying unemployed South Africans

I understand the Niall Mellon is well meaning and many of the volunteers believe they are doing gtreat things however with stories emerging of people receiving these houses becoming young cannies I am personally extremely sceptical as to whether this charity is worth supporting. There are a huge amount of charities which accept volunteer hours here and elsewhere. This is not sour grapes I just think there is a flaw in the model of how this charity operates, spending a fortune to fly a whole load of bankers down to lift a few bricks in a country where unemployment is rife and 10 labourers could be hired for the price of the plane ticket seems to be self indulgent codology at best.

Having worked in the charity sector, I have extreme reservations about Niall Mellons thing which he is still getting media apearances on primtime rte slots from. South Africa is probably on of the richest African countries and does’nt need such innitiatives ahead of the real poor of Africa. Real estate long term should be a great investment in South Africa that will only continue to grow as a tourist destination etc.

Looks like Paddy Kelly’s son is struggling too. By Ronald Quinlan

Sunday November 30 2008

"THE company is trading well and is very strong. The industry is encountering recession but the bar trade isn’t experiencing the same impact as other sectors.

“During a recession, people tend to downgrade from restaurants to bars, so we are doing well.”

That was how Simon Kelly put it when the Sunday Independent spoke to him five weeks ago about the rumours swirling around town in relation to the 21 Dublin bars owned and operated by Sharmane Ltd – more popularly known as the Thomas Read Group.

Fast forward to today and all that would appear to have changed utterly, with the appointment in the High Court of an interim examiner to the business on Friday.

With reported liabilities of €26.7m over its assets, Thomas Read’s parent company, Guerneville Ltd, will have an unenviable task ahead of them in trying to get their once-thriving bar and restaurant business back on track.

In the boom times, Mr Kelly’s bars were arguably the pulse of the capital city’s Friday and Saturday nights.

Now that the good times are over, the same people who once partied hard in pubs such as Pravda and Ron Blacks appear to be staying in to watch the Late Late Show on Friday nights, before heading north on Saturday morning to take their place in the traffic jams leading into Newry and Banbridge in the North, where Sainsburys and other UK retailers wait to fill their well-oiled tills with money from the south.

The combination of a strong euro, lower prices and even lower VAT (courtesy of British prime minister Gordon Brown) is proving to be an irresistible lure for the cash that Celtic Tiger cubs once flung across the Thomas Read bar counters with abandon.

Nor are our brightest and best flocking to shop until they drop as they once did on the high streets of Dublin, Cork and Limerick, despite the clarion call for them to do their “patriotic duty” by Finance Minister Brian Lenihan.

In a separate, and no less worrying, sign of the times, the well-known women’s fashion chain Sasha also sought and received permission to appoint an interim examiner to its parent company, Denholme, in the High Court last Friday.

With 42 stores across the country, the jobs of 380 direct employees and 120 others relying on Denholme’s survival are now on the line. While the court was told the fashion retailer has a reasonable prospect of survival, there is the not insubstantial matter of debts totalling €10m that cannot currently be paid, according to the company’s directors, William Walsh and Angela Cahill.

In a statement, they said: “This appointment [of an examiner] will facilitate proposed new investment from a number of interested parties.”

In the case of the Thomas Read Group of bars, such investment could be more difficult to come by in the current climate.

Not even Mr Kelly’s pledge just five weeks ago that he would “keep pulling pints, selling beer and giving everybody a good time” will bring back customers willing to fork out €6 for a pint of lager anytime soon.

Nor will his father and chief financial backer, Paddy Kelly’s unrelated plea in a interview on RTE radio yesterday that people would show “compassion” to each other in the downturn help much.

The Sunday Independent understands that both father and son met with Simon Kelly’s principal banker, the ACC, shortly after this newspaper’s October 26 story on the Thomas Read Group appeared.

Discussions on the provision of personal guarantees from the Kellys on the ACC’s €15m in loans are believed to have been ongoing, even as the Thomas Read Group went into examinership on Friday afternoon, throwing the future of 450 employees into serious doubt.

Attempts by the Sunday Independent yesterday to contact Mr Kelly proved unsuccessful. Paddy Kelly, meanwhile, is understood to be in the US on business.

In fairness to both men, it isn’t just the biting recession against them as they endeavour to save their bars from closure.

Take the case of Thomas Read’s eight bars at Dublin airport as a case in point.

With 20 million passengers passing through it doors annually, one might wonder why more of them didn’t stop to quench their thirst or fill their bellies before taking off.

But the airport – as the heads at Aer Lingus and Ryanair might tell you – can be a tough environment in which to operate for entrepreneurs.

One example of the nonsense presented by the unions there meant barmen at Thomas Read’s outlets were forbidden from mopping their own bar room floors, as it was a job for airport authority personnel.

Examinership can be a useful process, Mr Kelly conceded when he last spoke to the Sunday Independent. For now, at least, it will protect the Thomas Read Group’s operations from the creditors who are baying for payment.

Among those looking for their money are Diageo Ireland Ltd, Heineken Murphy Breweries and Britvic C&C. Banks seeking payment include the ACC Bank, owed more than €15m; Ulster Bank, owed €5.6m; Allied Irish Bank, owed €3.5m; and Anglo Irish Bank, owed €597,000.

Should the process of examinership fail, counsel for Guerneville, Gary McCarthy, told the High Court that Sharmane’s debts could amount to as much of €38m in the event of its being wound up.

In the case of clothing retailer Sasha, its parent company’s debts include two substantial sums to the Bank of Ireland and the Revenue Commissioners. Bank of Ireland is owed more than €2.4m, while the Revenue Commissioners is owed €2.8m.

The High Court heard on Friday how the company’s directors met the previous day to finalise a scheme of arrangement for the survival of their business, which has traded successfully since its establishment in 1982.

More recently, Sasha has encountered problems due to increased competition, deflation in prices throughout the retail trade, as well as unseasonal weather that have served to hinder sales.

  • Ronald Quinlan

No suprised, even when I willingly go out in town and pay 6 euro for a guiness or 18euro for a double short and mixer I still feel like I have been raped.

Vintners Federation came out the earlier on radio and said they are freezing prices for a year! is that not collusion? Contact the competition authority. In a deep recession the price of pints should be falling!! and not just static!

Sounds like a nice chap: … 96240.html

"Paddy Kelly delivered his defence to the case on July 5, 2007, and, in the early hours of that day, his son Simon sent an e-mail to Mr McGivern.

Most of the dealings relating to the share purchase agreement were conducted between Mr McGivern and Simon Kelly, the judge noted.

In the e-mail, Simon Kelly referred to "preparing the defence against your bull*** claim for the €1m’’ and accused Mr McGivern of breaking an agreement on flexibility of a schedule of repayments.

The e-mail also stated: “In the very near term, this dispute is going to move beyond the bounds of a commercial claim and become personal. If this happens, I do not care what cost I will bear to make you regret taking this action. You may win in court but it will be to your eternal regret.’’”

The last paragraph sounds like a loosely veiled threat and if someone said that to me I would see it as such and inform my brief. … king38.htm

I don’t think there is collusion here. What I think they’re actually saying is

We have belatedly realised that everytime we raise the already-much-too-high-price of drink in pubs we are only contributing to the problem of falling revenues. We are resigned to the fact that people just aren’t that interested in coming to our pubs to be overcharged anymore. We’ve spent a lot of money to make sure that the licensing laws in Ireland aren’t opened up to real competition. We’ve even had our talking heads on the radio talking about the “evils” of people drinking in their own homes (seriously - I heard a straight-faced delivery of how drinking at home was a terrible thing from some publican). However there is only so much we can do and unfortunately we can’t turn up at peoples houses and demand they pay us for the beer that they bought at the off-license at a fraction of the price they’d pay in our pub. So we’re trying to put a brave face on it as though we were diamond-geezers who care about the little guy. And we’re hoping that the minister doesn’t increase the VAT on booze because we’ve being a key-player in disencentivising people from drinking in our pubs and now we’re finding that the recession might affect us.

There is no particular glee here. Pubs are going close and people are going to lose their jobs. And I’m certain that there are pubs that have charged reasonable prices all though the tiger and haven’t gouged their customers simply because they could. (mostly pubs in the countryside I would guess). And there is no doubt but that the smoking ban has hurt the pub-trade. But lets call a spade a bloody shovel. Many pubs in Dublin and elsewhere have been raking the cash in all through the tiger. And they’ve done so by price-gouging their customers. And with the price of drink sky-high people were beginning to drink at home before the recession and before the smoking ban made it far more fashionable. Certainly they’ve aggravated matters but the publicans need to take some of the credit for their handiwork. I remember being in Ron Blacks lounge just once (part of the now-struggling Thomas Reade’s group) and I forget the exact prices (it was a few years ago anyway) but I remember thinking “holy cr@p thats pricey - I won’t be coming back here again”.

That says it all really.

Ron Blacks, where the 5 euro pint originated first. Maybe the boys from Davys dont pop down as regularly as they used to.

“(seriously - I heard a straight-faced delivery of how drinking at home was a terrible thing from some publican)”

the guy on the plack this morning was saying that pubs are a controlled enviornment for drinking! phew!

I still remember the initial shock when three pints could not be purchased for 10 punts. This first occurred in Zanzibar on the Quays, obviously pre 2002.