Discussion:Anglo Irish - it must fall to recover.

Would like to discuss this:

I believe that the Anglo Irish issue is the key issue in the Irish Economy at the moment.

Why?

  1. What’s the reason for keeping Anglo Irish open? Closing down Anglo Irish would result in the actual pursuit of the loans that were given out - i.e. ‘friends’ of the political establishment would actually have to pay for the mistakes THEY made and the tax payer is footing the bill for right now.
  2. The more money that is pumped into Anglo, the less it is allowed to operate under European law…how obvious is that?

To me it is quite obvious that Anglo is being kept alive at the tax payer’s expense to cover up for the mistakes of this government and ‘friends’…

I just woke up this morning with the realisation that Anglo must fall in order for this country to recover…
Correct me if I’m wrong.

The identity of the bondholders is the key IMO.

I think it is far less likely that FF are bailing them out because they are mates or Galway Tenters. That would turn FF’s normal gombeen incompetence and low-level cronyism into full-on sedition. It would literally mean they are impoverishing the nation for several generations to bail out a few dozen dudes. I don’t think these FF idiots have the balls or brains to pull that off. It’s just too big for them to even think about trying, not to mention too risky given FF would throw their own mothers under a bus to get themselves out of a jam. The idea they give a toss about past obligations if it means self destruction in a non-runner IMO.

I think far more likely is that so many major Irish funds are invested in Anglo that if they were let it go down it would cause roughly equivalent damage to the cost of bailing out the bank. I guess we could say let those pension funds sink, but I don’t know how big a down-stream problem that would cause the state. I guess it could also sink some number of Irish companies.

Not saying that justifies the bail-out…I just think that’s the government’s rationale.

I disagree here. I think the housing market is still the key issue. It is still the seminal evil behind so many other evils in this country.

That is my -frightening- point. I believe they are.

On the ‘Key Issue’ thing - perhaps I should rephrase that as ‘key to the recovery of Ireland’
Fall of Anglo will set of a series of events that will open up some eyes. :open_mouth:

I don’t believe this conspiracy at all. If FF thought they could do something to save their own political hides they would "friendly tenters" or not.

Did I hear correctly over the last few days that it was possible for the bondholders to insure their investment against default and if having done so then they will not be at a loss with ANGLO failing but if they could and didnt then thank christ they’re not investing my money. :open_mouth:

And I think you are right. These are the people that have blighted the countryside, the towns and the cities and the live of many who live there for small amounts of cash in envelopes.

maybe a bit of both

i don’t know if funding requirements include deposits

I think it’s a mix of the two myself.

Bailout for the Tenters and the fact that the bonds are mostly held by…the other toxic Irish banks and pension funds!

So letting Anglo fail would crystallize those losses on the balance sheets of all the other banks, pension funds and investment houses, triggering a chain reaction that would demolish the entire Irish domestic financial industry.

That is why Anglo was “systemic”.

But Sidewinder, your analysis isn’t really a “mix of the two”…it is a straight up “systemic importance” analysis, isn’t it? Unless you think FF are *also * looking out for Galway Tent Mick and Galway Tent Paddy. But that doesn’t seem likely since the systemic argument would take primacy and dwarf any decision relating to individual gombeens.

The builders in the Tent and the senior bankers were all FF croneys so it’s all the one really, true. Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between different colours of gombeen :laughing:

Lenny keeps insisting that Anglo was “systemic” but refuses to say why. I think it is because every other FF numpty in Irish finance (and politics, and the media) was up to their eyeballs in Anglo shenanigans and it would have ruined all the top FF builders and many of the “elite” of Irish society would have been ruined meaning FF’s parasitic death grip on the nation and control of the media message would be fatally weakened.

Which of these considerations Lenny and Clowen judged to be the most important is moot. Anglo was bailed at taxpayers expense in order to protect FF and FF’s friends and FF’s influence in key sectors. People are still in Denial about just how incestuous and corrupt the upper levels in Dublin really are - the entire system needs a reboot and a purge.

My thoughts exactly - and that’s exactly why Anglo should close…

Ok - so when lenny says anglo is of “systemic” importance, he is being genuine. He is just neglecting to say the system is rotten through and not worth saving. So to the OP, yes anglo must be allowed fail in order to get for Ireland to get a new clean system to start again.

The list of special interest groups who would have been hurt by Anglo going under is very long. Which is why you see so many theories. Actually all of the are correct.

But the systemic bit is very simple. Its AIB and then the IFSC.

If Anglo goes then AIB goes too. And AIB really is systemic. And if AIB goes then if looks like there would be very serious knock on effect with the IFSC. Which is the real Irish economy. The IFSC is several time larger than the “official” economy - the 170B GDP one.

So the Irish taxpayer is signing away several decades growth to calm the fears of people who use Ireland as a giant tax and regulatory haven, whose financial activity creates little wider benefit in the general economy, but who have enriched enormously a very small group of people.

It’s certainly a very very weird response to an accusation of treason - “I’m beholden to no-one!” WTF? And shuffling around with the shifty eyes and hunched shoulders, like a kid that’s been caught out but is trying to brazen their way out of it…

I see theres a facebook campaign now facebook.com/pages/Easter-Sunday-GPO-Protest/109293365760349#!/pages/Easter-Sunday-GPO-Protest/109293365760349?v=wall

I think its a great idea.