Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the US


Everybody assumes that Mexico will never pay for the wall, my guess is that they will

Because once the wall is finished, illegal immigrants from Central and South America will be stuck in Mexico, as all right thinking people know this can only cause the Mexican economy to grow at rates never seen before, so the Mexican government will be awash with tax revenue from an unstoppable economy

Once the Mexicans figure out that the key to economic success is open boarders they will then send the Mexican Navy into the Mediterranean to pick up the Africans headed for Europe, European governments will need to move fast, our economic future depends on it, I propose a massive EU backed program to collect as many Africans as possible before the Mexicans arrive


At the risk of playing devils advocate…US debt interest payments amount to about 1 billion a day, Trump is looking for 5 billion for a wall. What have i missed??


The wall is a symbol for both sides. BOTH SIDES! :smiley:


You missed that it is Democrat presidents that do debt reduction/balancing the budget, Republicans that increase it by a trillion dollars at a time giving tax cuts to the rich. And, you know, politics :wink:


Low energy Trump last night
The fight over the wall is pathetic
Guess he will have to own the shutdown, like he said


If you think it’s about the wall. It’s not.


Really. Well it appears to be precisely about the wall. Trump is the wall and the Wall is Trump


Another victim of TDS?




surely this is the perfect time to play Trump at his own game and in return for a toughened border implement an amnesty on illegals? You cant really do that without a super strong border anyway? Seize the opportunity?

or are they all just happy playing cat fight point scoring politics? Or is my ignorance of US politics that bad? It seems from this link that it is in line with Democrat thinking?!?



In your response to the previous poster, “If you think it’s about the wall. It’s not.”…

When you posted the phrase, “Trump is the wall and the Wall is Trump” you didn’t explain what you meant.
It seemed like a tautology.
Wall = Trump. Trump = Wall. … Why?

(BTW, I am not a qualified to diagnose anyone with TDS. Any suggestion was meant in jest.)


Amnesty is not going to fly because the last one was a fiasco. Reagan agreed to it in 1986 with the understanding of a quid pro quo from the Dem controlled Congress. Regularize the status of the current illegals, it was claimed 600K at the time by the Dems, and serious money for upgrading the existing walls / fences with tough enforcement of existing laws. In the end almost 3 million mexicans/ central anmericans and their families and relatives got status and there was zero support for enforcement of the existing immigration laws by the Dems in Congress or elsewhere. Until 9/11 the Border Patrol was starved of funding by Congress. For that very reason.

Another thing to remember is that the '86 Amnesty people had by far the lowest rate of naturalization of any immigrant group in the last few decades. Less than 25% as against the usual 50%/60%. Until Mexico changed its land ownership laws in the mid 90’s it was almost zero percent. The main reason for naturalization was to facilitate intermediate family immigration sponsorship. This group had the lowest education rate / highest illiteracy rate and their children were the least integrated of the second generation immigrant children. And at least in California had by far the highest welfare dependency rate / welfare usage rate.

So although exceptionally nice people as individuals as a group a huge burden on the state and not the kind of immigrants that any other western country would ever consider allowing to immigrate legally. Mexicans and Central American with real educational qualification, professionals, have no problem emigrating legally to the US. I have worked with several over the years. From Mexico, Costa Rica and Honduras. The illegals are almost all illiterate / semi literal peasants.

As for the wall. There has been either a wall or mofo’ fence along the southern edges of San Diego County and most of Imperial County for as long as I can remember. Its not like its anything new. The problem is mostly along the high desert in Arizona and in Texas. Where hundreds die every year at the hands , directly or indirectly, of the “coyotes”. The human traffickers.

Remember that the next time you hear some dickhead spout on about the “immorality” of the wall. The wall will save lives. Lots of lives. Not just people like the legal immigrant policeman Ronil Singh murdered by an illegal last month but many hundreds of Mexicans and Central Americans who are killed by human traffickers. Then there is the subject of just how many of the illegals, especially woman and children are sexually abused and raped every year while being trafficked by “coyotes”. Many many thousands. Another story you will very rarely see covered in the media. because it makes the Democratic Party look bad. Very very bad.

Build the fucking wall. Now. You know, the one that was promised by the Democratic Party back in 1986 as part of the Amnesty. And actually enforce the law. Against employers of illegals. Like those who have all those illegal’s as nannies and housekeepers and gardeners. You know, the sort of people who vote for and donate to Nancy Pelosi and Diane Feinstein. Only 10% of illegals work in ag, the rest work in the services sector. Basically an infinite pool of cheap passive household servants and domestics. For the overwhelming Democratic voting well to do suburban middle classes.


Fact checking JMC’s claims about illegals work at in the US. … n-the-u-s/

"Compared with their 4.8% share of the civilian workforce overall in 2016, unauthorized immigrants are overrepresented as a share of the workforce in farming occupations (24%) and construction occupations (15%). In all industries and occupations, though, they are outnumbered by U.S.-born workers.

or this one … ers-taxes/

Their representation in particular industries is even more pronounced, and the Department of Agriculture estimates that about half of the nation’s farmworkers are unauthorized, while 15 percent of those in construction lack papers – more than the share of legal immigrants in either industry. In the service sector, which would include jobs such as fast food and domestic help, the figure is about 9 percent.

But I’m sure JMC knows better than the Pew Research council or the US Dept of Agriculture.


Yeup. Only been following the story closely for quite a few decades by this stage. And you? Most probably not.

Lots of great stories of underreporting/ misreporting of the subject. Lots of stuff only comes out by accident. Or by actually talking to people. Dept of Ag stats are pretty much useless. Ask anyone who works in the business. The state stats tend to be much better. But you have to dig. As for the Pew Charitable Trusts. Bless their little hearts. They do try but their analysis has tended to be partisan shit since the late 90’s. Back in the '70’s and 80’s they still had reasonable reports with substantive data sets. If you think NPR is objective and non partisan then you will just love Pew reports. More insidious because they are oh so reasonable and measured in tone and tenor. With lots of pretty graphs. Still partisan shite.

In California about 90% of the pickers are illegals. Easily seen around places like Watsonville, Salinas. Or in the Oxnard, Ventura area down south. But they only account for less than 10% of the illegals working in California. Easiest way to see the rest. Any working day. For Marin county try Bellam at 580 in San Rafael, across from the Post Office. You will see several dozen illegals waiting around for causal labour. In SF, the current pick up point for causal labour illegals is on Army St. Around Folsom.

How do I know they are illegals. Because if they have legal status they dont need to do that crap. Ask anyone who works in the restaurant trade how many of the kitchen staff speak spanish. Outside of asian restaurants its close on 100%. How about cleaning staff? Close on 100% are hispanic. How about house cleaners, gardeners etc. Close on 100% Hispanic. Now how do you know their legal status? Quite simple. After the 1986 amnesty once the illegals all got status they immediately moved into better paying jobs they could qualify for. Quite a few started working for state and city agencies for example. If you have legal status you dont work those crap jobs. For about two or three years after the Amnesty passed in 1986 it was very difficult to get pickers, or gardeners, cleaners etc. At least ones as cheap and passive as before. Until the next generate of illegals arrived by the late '80s / early 90’s. When the status quo returned. Crap jobs for illegals. Better jobs for those were not. So places like the trades in construction has mostly become mexican in the last 25 years. On a construction site the low paying jobs are mostly illegals the better paying jobs are for the legals. Quiet often second generation '86ers by this stage so generally speak English. Very friendly people, once they get over the surprise of an anglo talking to them. This is especially true in places like Marin.

See, thats the sort of stuff that does not show up in your “reputable” sources. What actually does happen in the real world. The sort of stuff that those of us who have actually lived in this world for the last few decades actually know. And who know these people and their stories. As I said, when there is no language barrier, they are exceptional nice people. I hold not the slightest animosity towards them individually. I’ve known one for more than twenty years. And a few others almost as long. But that still does not detract from the fact that they should not be here.

If it had not been for the Kennedy fuck up in the 1965 Bill none of this would ever have happened. The traditional migration patterns that went back to the time of the Alien Exclusion Bill of the 1880’s would have continued. If they went back to the pre '65 rules the problem might abate or even go away. It would have if reformed back in the 1980’s. But that would open up a whole new can of worms, not least of which is the Dems would lose a great distraction major policy issue. Plus all their cheap cleaners and gardeners.


Never let the facts get in the way of a good story



Is SC Ruth Bader Ginsburg still with us?


The obsession with RBG is only of interest to Fox news network and few liberals


Trump orders ‘300 burgers’ to White House amid shutdown