Firstly,Id like to say that Ive been reading the site regularly over the past month or so and this is my first time posting. Id like to compliment many of the posters on what is obviously a superior knowledge/degree of honesty than anything which has evident in the media over the pst couple of years. But I suppose thats a given.
An observation - while walking down Dame Street over the weekend I counted anything up to 10 business to let/sale vacancies. Is this a sign of things to come in the city centre? While I think many lay people would have felt that the outer suburbs and the commuter belt may have been hit, should we expect a “ghosttown” effect in the city centre?Also do people feel that resdential values in the city centre will hold to any degree as opposed o the outer edges? I have to confess that I have a personal interest being an owner occupier in the city centre.
I have noticed the same thing especially on O’Connell Street, towards the Parnell Street end, you will notice several buildings on both sides of the street that are empty.
This is meant to be Irelands main thoroughfare and yet we have empty buildings, what gives??? Personally speaking I think O’Connell street should be renamed “Diabetes steet”, judging by the Spar’s, Centra’s, Burger King, McDonalds etc. that dominate it.
The future for Dublin city center business diversity is not great since the young spending population has mostly migrated beyond the M50, where they are served by the retail centers that have all the same stores. Businesses will continue to follow them out there Greene’s Bookshop being the most recent case in point.
If you are running a business in the city center, you would do well to study what happened to American city centers as the population migrated to the suburbs post world war 2.
I’ve been seeing much more than usual numbers of small businesses in the city centre area close down recently - cafes and small shops in particular. Talking to the owner of one I visited occasionally it was cost pressures, tight margins and a difficulty in finding and retaining good staff. Retail rents aren’t being impacted and the footfall is still there.
Will this have an impact on residential property in the city centre? Who knows - I think there’s a general overvaluation in all residential property, but the demand for such property still seems to be there. Again, value does not equal price if we are in a bubble so notions of “holding value” does not preclude a price fall.
Having a retail business smack in the City Centre as I do, You can’t help but be blown away by undeniable rush out of the city centre. Leases are for sale at crazy prices, I have no idea who could step up to such a high mark.
In fact a whole block beside me just went up for sale this week. Everyones trying to get out. A lot have been on the market since before last summer too.
I’m in this area you speak of at least twice a week. Now the last time I saw this, was just before the dot com pop. Not soon after was I out of a job and happily on the scratch.
There is a massive flight out of the city with decades old business being developed away into apartments, sold as sites etc. etc. Disapperaing overnight.
Its also vey difficult for expansion. If you are not a Cafe Bar Deli type outfit you havne’t got a chance, unless you’ve got your entire extended family form China working for you on the never never. There are massive portfolios up for sale, See Castlemarket for example, somethings got to break, I’m jsut not sure what it will be cause it doens’t look like rents. many of these owners got in a long time ago and for a song. So I guess the business owner is the one going to take the hit here if these boys can’t get what they want, they’ll probably jsut jack the rent.
There is a huge amount of new build retail space (it looks to me in Smithfield there is about 90% vacancy ).
Some retials palces around the city have been vacant for over 5 years now (one or two I can think of I would say almost 10 years, vacant).
Thanks for the replies although Im afraid they havent cheered me up! Its pretty depressing to see whats going on particularly as, from a personal point of view, I bought my place on the basis that I felt that this type of thing wouldnt happen in the city centre, while the outskirts were decimated. Im beginning to get very worried about what the future has in store for this little island of ours.
Having said that, the Liberties area around Thomas Street has improved greatly and is the one part of the city which genuinely seems to be still developing organically. Of course it’s coming from a lower base although if overpricing in the traditional centres such as Dame Street/O’Connell Street/Georges Street/Grafton Street etc meant that other areas of the city experienced increased activity there could be a bit of a positive to be drawn. Apparently in the 18th century, the Northside was the place to be commercially speaking, until for whatever reason, the fulcrum switched to South of the Liffey.
These guys spend many years getting this together and only found this place I think over a year ago.
The City Arts which was a more high profile outfit also went a few years ago and sits there empty, its a perfectly good building for the arts. vacant, Dead an anti-space.
The city centre is being denuded of its social diversity & viability, not just its commercial viability.
I’d be pretty excited to put a tax of $25 per sq. metre of unused floor space within 2km of O’Connell Bridge. No distinction between res, retail or whatnot. Just make it painful as hell to leave stuff bare.
Having a fully-utilised City Centre is a national requirement. If you own space in the centre but can’t or won’t allow it to be used, you’re probably not the kind of person we need owning this national asset.
Manhattan is the world’s most desirable City centre on Earth, and part of the reason is that it does not allow a situation where dozens of hectares are left fallow, simply because it suits the owners. Lots of wasted space in the other 4 boroughs, which are roughly equivalent to Kinnegad in the global desirability stakes.
Based on what was posted on here yesterday, after work I went for a walk down Dame Street, Westmoreland Street, down to the end of O’Connell Street around by the Parnell end and back to the river by Capel Street. It was a while since I had been down there (when sober and during daylight hours) but I was shocked at the amount of available retail space along Parnell Street and Capel Street in particular. Parnell Street is desolate. I would say that there are nearly as many vacant premises as occupied ones on Parnell Street. Capel Street also has a huge number of retail/office spaces for sale or let. Does anyone know how long it has been like that?
These were the type of areas which were supposed to have benefitted from the Celtic Tiger etc. I suppose the fact that theres currently an ongoing gangland feud where both factions are originally from that area but where many of the attacks are taking place in Commuter ville says it all.
Is this our version of New York’s circa 1970s flight to the suburbs? Would lower property values have any impact in reversing this?
Will Smithfield be the monument to the folly of Celtic Tiger Ireland?
Brand spanking new and empty…
ftb reform will mean that city terrace houses for example will become more affordable. This will probably lead to a re-population of certain areas (i am thinking phibs,drum,smithfield) which the result that life will be put back into those areas. rem after these reforms a 2 bed terrace in north city centre will be the same price as a duplex in ashbourne. which will be better ?
there is a reason why - did you head about the ‘Park in the Sky’ development that is proposed for the site of the old Carlton cinema? There is a thread about it here if you want to read about it. The plan is/was that they’d buy everything behind it all the way back to moore street and redevelop the whole thing with lots more apartments and commercial space and restaurants.
I’ve no idea where that stands right now. I wouldn’t say that Dublin city centre needs any more commercial space right now. And while apartments in the city centre are always desirable they’ll need to be of a much higher standard than Irish developers are currently used building to to attract attention in a falling market. I’m not saying they wouldn’t get tenants in a location like that but the profit-margin isn’t going to be at all what Irish developers are used to I would say.
10 years, vacant).