Economic recovery talks collapse

rte.ie/news/2009/0203/economy.html

What’s this? The Taoiseach might have to “make a decision”. :open_mouth:

Well there’s a first time for everything. Pathetic they can’t even manage to negotiate 10% of the spending adjustment they need to make, as the country hurtles towards bankruptcy. Partnership me hole.

We might need some grownups like the IMF or someone to come in and take Clowen’s toys off him before he breaks them all.

At eight o’clock yesterday evening not one of the partners had shifted. There was no sign of agreement, no sign of leeway, no willingness to move. It takes two to partner, xman.

What will be more interesting today is whether the Taoiseach is in a position to say what offers were made by the partners that can be taken up on and integrated into whatever ‘decision’ he has to make.

It’s public, common knowledge that the only thing brought to the table by the partners was the entrenched refusal to give up anything.

But blame the Taoiseach if it’s easier. I’m no fan, but he’s not in this on his own.

It is still his fault as he shouldn’t be negotiating with them.
He should tell the social partners what is in the best interests of the country and then do it rather than let the social partners decide what they will accept.

If they can’t get agreement on the first €2B of cuts how are they going to back another €4B in each of the next 3 years. We have no choice but to make these cuts and the 2 Brian’s just have to get on with it today.

:laughing:

xman said

And it’s the Taoiseach’s fault.

Dreaded-Estate wrote

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

Partnership indeed.

He’s the captain. The ship is sinking.

He’s in the executive dining room having meetings with the first class passengers to discuss how best to deploy the first 10% of the lifeboats.

It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

He shouldn’t be negotiating, he should be leading.

It is pathetic that he entered into these negotiations and then failed to achieve the desired outcome. It’s pathetic that the “social partners” don’t realise that this is only 10% of the required adjustment. They’re all pathetic.

The negotiations were a cop out and the cop out was a failure.

When that day happens, I’ll be out at Dublin airport sprinkling the runway with rose petals. Not since Oliver Cromwell has this country had the governance it deserves.

moved to central bank

Waiting around for endless negotiations that are going nowhere is ridiculous but so is not negotiating at all. The social partners were given their opportunity to contribute and they refused to do so.

Many people in the country are experiencing pay cuts, job loss and fear of same. They’ll have zero sympathy for a bunch of the lads on the news saying they can’t accept pay cuts and now they don’t even have “And we weren’t even consulted!” to fall back on.

It’s also important for when the good times return everyone knows that during the boom the unions feds at the trough but when it came to an economic crisis they wouldn’t budge one millimeter.

Actually from what I can see the social partners have contributed greatly. They got through almost everything on the list.
If the final deal is what is needed, the unions would never have gone for it.
Their leadership simply wouldn’t, and couldn’t be seen to be on the side of pay cuts etc. for their members.

What remains to be seen is whether Cowen now has the leadership to get the union memberships to approve the package without their union leaders.

Points well made. But I think lead people in government should set a better example.

Massive salaries, expenses, expensive hair dos, and some getting pension as well.

When we get this it may be possible to get buy in down through the ranks.

Does Mary Coughlan deserve to be paid more than Barack Obama and Peter Mandelsson.

Does Mammy O’Rourke deserve a big salary, generous expenses and a full pension as well.

Government should lead from the front and set the example.

It’s a joke that the unions are even being consulted.

The decisions should be made and the unions told to suck it up. All workers essential rights are protected by law, anything else is a bonus.

It boils down to this, the unions want their pay protected at the expense of everyone else. Not that the govt are any different though.

Contributed greatly to ruining this country.

Very apt analogy xman.

Of course, if the idiots in government knew anything about negotiating, they would’ve started off aiming for a €4bn cut this year and settled for €2bn. Or better yet, go for the full 17bn up front and let the unions feel like they’ve achieved something for their membership by having it broken down over 3-4 years.

But then how would the bond markets react to that “indecisiveness”?

The weakness and vulnerability of this government laid bare - they’re lame ducks now. Ibec should leave the partnership negotiations because this game of economic chicken is between the government, the unions and the bond markets now.

Yikes, maybe they’re only aiming for €1bn :open_mouth:

So I presume the next stage is the Govt act on their own and the unions go on strike?

Any chance the govt will go on strike as well and save us paying their modest salaries as well?

Oh forgot they’ve effectively been on strike since this crisis started :imp:

I dont agree with looking for a bigger cut in the hope of getting what you want, this is f***ing stupid in the context of where the country is. What we need are executive decisions to be made as this is not the annual pay increase we’re discussing its the future of the country.
If the PS dont like it start culling their positions or call in the IMF and they’ll do it for free as for trying to get these people on board its a waste of time trying to get past the whats in it for me brigade.

I think the union leadership are as disconnected from their own members as they are from the rest of the country. Depending on what the government announce I can’t see a vote to strike going through.

Strikes are the last resort, expect court challenges first.