Eviction turns to violence in Strokestown Co. Roscommon


#181

Oh wow is the poor generation of Celtic tiger cubs forced to follow their compariates from the 80’s, 90’s and early 00’s on the emigration trail.


#182

And what was it before the deficit spending of the crash years?

It is wilful at this stage to only trot out the bank bailout as the reason for debt. The government will surprise itself by not adding to the debt this year, but it comes as a surprise.


#183

Anyone know the size of the farm or how much it would be worth?
Or ball park ?

This is up for 300k
myhome.ie/commercial/brochure/bushfield-castleplunkett-roscommon/4233943

Now interesting thing is the site with the house is valued 60k - how much will putting these people into accommodation cost the state? They will be straight to welfare as they make a living off the land and wont be reskilling to work for intel or microsoft anytime soon. So that is rental welfare until they die assuming a normal life expectancy its a few decades.

So why didnt KBC break up the farm? Sell the farm sheds, machinery, land etc. It is not in the taxpayers interest to have banks kick people out to be a burden on the state because of the banks stupid lending practices. Remember this bank was bailed out by the Belgian government and their flawed lending practices meant they were going bust.

m.independent.ie/irish-news/tao … tvc9HUSu84

Do we lock the thread now?


#184

Investigation after arson attack at KBC Bank branch in Dublin
rte.ie/news/crime/2018/1222 … ank-arson/

Strokestown: Eviction was a long time coming but raised many issues
independent.ie/irish-news/s … 50796.html


#185

irishexaminer.com/breakingn … 93666.html


#186


#187

The greatest concentration of deadbeat 720 day + arrears is where there is plenty of housing available.


#188

The only reason most of those “aged” arrears are allowed is simply because the properties are almost worthless on the secondhand market.

No one would buy them if there is history.


#189

The only one I know of personally has no road frontage and the bank needs to register a right of way into it first as the mortgage holder relies on ‘an arrangement’ for ingress and registered no right of way themselves. The mortgage holder is also long term disabled from drinking too much over the years.

So the bank can get neither money nor possession. Furthermore rights of way must be registered (universally) within 3 years or you cannot ever register one. :slight_smile:


#190

That is tripe.

There is a liquid market for 98% of property types in Dublin and Cork cities.

Obviously less in deepest Roscommon, but there is a price at which any property will sell.


#191

Skippy 3
I think dolanbaker was referring to
"where there is plenty of housing available. " not Dublin/Cork.


#192

Excellent post. Or to look at it another way, why didn’t the debtor attempt to secure their home, by selling off the farm/buildings/machinery/yokes etc.

Because this isn’t really about the home now is it. It’s about a culture of defaulting on debt throughout the land from Killiney Bay to rural Roscommon. Because two wrongs make a right.


#193

That’s what I reckon he meant too. There will be very little strategic defaulting left now in the main cities as the security is liquid.

Post the many reworks and engagements only c.1% of PPR Mortgages now held by AIB PTSB and BoI are both in arrears AND in negative equity and over 90% of their mortgage books are fully performing as well as being in positive equity. It was 2% at end 2017. Various vultures now have the 720 day + dross.

PTSB were forced to sell a load of reworks a few weeks back with 2 €1.3bn lots named Project Glas and Project Glenbeigh. The being non performing and performing reworks, respectively. Start Mortgages got the non performers and some regulated entity got the performing ones, they are mainly split mortgages that are compliant.

We, the taxpayer, paid well north of €10bn to clean up these 3 banks mortgage books, never mind all the other shite the same banks lost money on. :frowning: We have paid enough.

The headline loan value for the 720 day + strategic defaulting cohort is €8bn although it is really only worth €1-2bn now as we are talking €200k mortgages in Longford and utter rubbish like that, not some deranged divorcee who ‘deserves’ to live in Foxrock.

That €1-2bn amount would have made some difference to the chronic homeless crisis in Dublin had it been available to the taxpayer 3 or 4 years ago. It is well gone now though. :frowning:


#194

There be a protest march or gathering whatever in strokestown at 12.30.

There is allready a really strong garda presence linked to last week’s happenings and the fact that a local resident, a Lithuanian msn, is missing since last Tuesday. Garda helicopter here all day.

The town is simmering nicely. Don’t know what will push it over tommorow.


#195

Yes, outside the main commuter areas, there’s plenty of surplus property still available, but I was also referring to the fact that few would want to buy a repossessed property in many rural areas with the knowledge that they would not welcomed by the locals.

Even those who buy “sites” from local farmers sometimes find it difficult to be accepted into the local community, let alone someone who has bought a property where the previous owners have been evicted.


#196

It is even worse than that. Longford county council have no database of public roads and will not categorically certify that any L Road is a public road.

Therefore no one off house can be repossessed in all of Longford if it is located along an L Road, other counties only have partial data and only 6 counties outside Dublin have a canonical list of public roads. Many houses, especially those built from 1990 to 2010, are not built on public roads.

If it not a public road there is no public right of way (eg for bailiffs and/or the guards) and it is up to the householder to ensure they have a legal right of way to their own house. It is only in recent years that mortgage banks ensured this was done properly before a drawdown. Before 2010 they relied on solicitors giving assurances, for all the good that was worth. :frowning:


#197

Not true 2pack. There were no regional banks in Ireland, and lending policies were uniformly bad across the market. (Some banks (BoI) were less terrible than others (INBS) but that’s another story).

The regional variation in long-term mortgage arrears for PPRs (>720 days) is ****far ****less than you think, only a factor of 2. Look at figure 5 in here. Long-term arrears is lowest in Dublin and Cork (about 2.5%) and highest in Leitrim and Cavan (5%), with everywhere else in between.

Some of that border stuff will be pure dross, but plenty will be on big houses in semi-urban locations, simply people who overborrowed c 2005. There is a market for this, even if it is slow.

Nearly all of the urban long-term arrears could be sold tomorrow, and almost all of it in positive equity.

Many things are dragging out the mortgage arrears crisis into its second decade, but the lack of a liquid market is not one of them.


#198

There is a rental shortage nearly everywhere, and yield on a 2005 3-bed on the outskirts of a rural town would be 8% or so. Don’t forget a lot of the silly borrowing 2004-08 was for ****new ****properties being thrown up in estates.

There are people with cash out there. Landlords would be low enough profile and no one would hold it against a tenant who moves in.

I take your point that this could be a problem in ‘deep’ rural areas, but this is not where 80% of the long-term arrears are, believe it or not.

Repeat: the lack of a market has not held back repossessions since 2013 at the latest.


#199

Thanks for those figures Skippy, i only had older ones handy.

centralbank.ie/docs/default … -(o’malley.pdf?sfvrsn=5

I will say that if 5% of Mortgages in Leitrim are in 720 day + (make that 2000 day) arrears and if 5% of housing in Leitrim is EMPTY (it is more than that) THEN it is safe to say that repossessing them should not lead to homelessness on the aggregate, should it?

Different in Dublin, obviously.


#200

@2pack

Completely 2pack.

Homelessness statistics are produced by the CSO (very good) and Department of Housing (very bad).

Sadly neither of these provide firm data on the tenure status **prior **to entering homelessness.

Anyone involved in the sector will tell you it is a mixture of landlord selling up, rent increases, etc when whole households are made homeless. Family reasons (relationship, domestic abuse, overcrowding) accounts for the rest.

Repossessions from PPR does not figure.