"False economy to scrap Metro North project"

can’t deny …cant deny … well theres no arguing with can’t deny its the equivalent of rock,paper scissors all wrapped into one hand sign…
Ive just goten a warm fuzzy feeling at my taxs going to the metro project… there wont be a dry eye in the BoB house tonight … kids we cant deny its a good thing your papas taxes are off to build a metro in north dublin, now eat your colcannon theres some bread pudding for dessert :stuck_out_tongue:

The alternative is to move the airport where the real people are but I simply could not stand the whinging if we planked it down off Booterstown station with Isobel under the approach path .

Saying ‘No interconnectivity’ is unfair. Metro North joins the existing Luas A and B lines and has a stop under drumcondra station, intersecting with the Maynooth-Sligo mainline rail.

It also intersects with the other planned routes in Dublin: the interconnector station at Stephen’s Green, Luas lines D and E and Metro West.

The 5 billion figure was found by estimating the project cost (@2.3bn) and 6% interest over 30 years (@2.7bn) and adding these numbers together. You cannot add money paid in 2010 to money paid in 2040 and arrive at a meaningful figure.

The plan was to pay out approx 150mil a year for 30 years. Project to be built and operated by a third party.

The EIS for Metro north predicts 34m passenger journeys per year. Assuming that ticket revenues cover operational costs, (as they do on the luas), that leaves the government paying 4-5 euro subsidy per passenger journey. There is the possibility that a large amount of money will be recouped in levies (several hundred million was recouped in levies on the sandyford-cherrywood extension).

The question is whether the subsidy is value for money. The problem is that estimating this requires placing a value on the intangible benefits from switching millions of journeys from car to train.

Sheesh, you’re never happy! :cry:

I’m not that inclined to go down this route but there are plenty of REAL people in North County Dublin thank you very much.

What about that crapshack in Galway, when are we closing that monstrosity?

But nordies dont use the airport, all the customers are south of the liffey and Galway does not matter because we only ever get one way tickets out of the place or hitch a ride with the Red Arrows after the show .

We eat babies aswell don’t forget. :nin

I quite like the proposals of the Rail Users Ireland group. Although I also think there should be 2 circle lines linking the various routes At the outer reaches and halfway between that and the centre.

I’m all for public transport and more integration of public transport. I genuinely am, even though I love my car and sometimes go driving just for the fun of it. When I lived further out of the city I drove, there was no alternative despite what some might claim.

But let’s get real. Does anyone think that getting to and from the airport is the most pressing issue facing Dublin’s public transport? Yes Yes I know Metro is about more than the airport, but the airport keeps being used to sell it.

I’ve talked to so many people about public transport in Dublin and the almost universal complaint is “to get anywhere I have to take one bus to the city center and another out”.

I spoke to a waitress a few nights ago who walks 45 minutes to work, because it’s quicker and more convenient than taking the bus. She works a 12 hour day, leaves work at 10pm or sometimes later and then faces a 45 minute walk home.

Another girl has to travel by two buses for over an hour and a half. And she lives and works in Dublin, she’s not commuting from Carlow. This girl recently discovered her bus stop had been “knocked down by a car”. She stood with a group of other people trying to flag down a bus and the buses drove straight past.

Calling Dublin Bus she discovered “Oh yeah, we don’t stop there any more”. This adds another 10-15 minutes of walking to her already ridiculous journey, and she got no warning.

60% of buses in Dublin pass by Trinity college every day. They want to block cars from driving there even though the traffic jam is usually more buses.

There are so many buses in Dublin that at any given time you can find dozens of them just parked the length of the Liffey on the south side, more parked on the north side beyond O’Connell bridge, more parked at College Green.

So fine, built Metro if you want. Why stop at 3 rail systems with seperate ticketing, let’s see if we can hit at least 10 different systems. People will come just to see it all.

But don’t think it’s going to solve anything in Dublin.

The arguments for Metro seem to be, it’ll create jobs, now is the time to build because it’s cheap, and sure if it provides a bit of public transport sure that’d be grand.

Public transport in Dublin is rotten to the core, building more of it isn’t going to solve that.

-Rd

I know what you are saying Rd, obviously the core attitudes and approach of those with responsibility for transport need to change drastically, but I don’t think we can wait in regards to building more. I do think it is imperative that we have better holistic planning for Dublin and the rest of the country, but not doing anything until we get that would be a mistake IMO.

At this time of elections coming up, who are the ones to berate/encourage to sort out the problem?

Hammer, nail and head.

The only people consulted on bus and train timetables are the CIE unions.
Daily public transport user? Then you have to plan your life around CIE, if you have any feedback forget, these guys could care about any user feedback in the system.
The chairman of CIE gets 330k per annum and two cars just in case his first one breaks down.

As for metro north, don’t doubt it will be a fantastic sucess.
For years in the 90s the Luas was going to be the biggest calamity ever to befall Dublin (cue doom mongering from Noelle Campell Sharp etc) and just last week it was the salvation for house prices along its route.

Dublin badly needs reliable and frequent public transport. the Interconnector and the Metro will provide, just build them already.

These and all the other points have been thoroughly and I do mean thoroughly ] kicked over on RUI boards and Commuting and Transport on boards.ie

there are also all the other plans to dig up the city centre LUAS BX ]

Putting a bailey bridge in at Marlborough St/Hawkins St Junction to allow the O Connell Bridge Metro stop be built

Oh, I don’t think we should be doing nothing. For from it. And I despise people who hold up all progress while they wait for the famous holistic approach. That’s a bullshit way of kicking for touch.

No. What I’m saying is that we can do more, faster and cheaper by actually tackling the bus crisis. The Buses don’t have to be fixed as part of any holistic super duper overall plan. We could make small improvements immediately and build on them continuiously, instead of going backwards…cutting routes to save money, while dozens of buses sit parked in the city center.

Let’s look at key residential and work areas and run buses around the city to connect them in the most efficent way, rather than persevering with the giant clogged hub that is the city center.

As for more rail, I’m ok with that. I don’t understand why we need DART, LUAS and now something new called Metro. Is calling it Metro supposed to make it sexier and easier to get done? Why not just say we want to extend the DART Network? I don’t get it. Some PR prick somewhere was paid money to come up with Metro North as a Brand.

But building Metro North while the buses are such a mess is like drinking Diet Coke with your daily Big Mac and Cigarette. Yes, switching to diet might be a good idea, and yes you should probably do it, but you’re ignoring the thing that’s really killing you.

-Rd

Agreed, particularly this part

Sorry, I misunderstood Rd.

The bus system doesn’t work because the management have no incentive to make it work. If they ever to try to make service improvements they are met with industrial action and political opposition. If they leave everything as it is they get a nice salary and pension. Route changes literally take years to be approved by The Dept of Transport. The result of political interference is dozens of zombie routes running at odd times carrying no passengers that cannot be shut down for fear of another 'local politician demands retention of vital 273b service." Another problem is that hardly anyone above a certain income level ever uses a bus - certainly none of the politicians or transport policy decision makers.

Luas and metro are essentially the same thing. When DART was introduced it had to run on our Irish broad gauge tracks (1600mm). When Luas was purchased the decision was made to go with standard gauge (1435) as used across europe and available off-the-shelf. It is not necessary for luas to be able to run on dart tracks to provide a comprehensive service - they merely have to intersect.

The metro also runs on standard gauge tracks and can carry luas trains. It is branded metro to draw attention to the fact that it is fully grade separated from other forms of traffic and uses extensive underground sections to achieve higher average speeds and a higher capacity service.

I’d like to have a roller-coaster to the airport costed.

What a flippin’ marvellous idea.

Typowatch: surely Rd meant rotten to the Córas (Iompair Éireann )??

8DD

Warsaw has not rail link at all. You might think that is is same situation as in Dublin… however we Poles are even more incompetent. Warsaw airport has rail track connected to rail network and about half a mile there is MAJOR rail line with… a station!

Can’t understand why practically every DB route goes into the city centre. They all leave dublin city centre empty, all follow the same route to a point and then split off to service the last few stops on their route.

Move the termini out of the city serve locally from the new termini and have a few frequent express routes with a few stops into the city centre. A few routes can go into the centre via the scenic route…not every bleedin bus. Some set down termini near connolly (conyngham rd) and heuston (busaras) for the lads to have their fag breaks.

The resulting shorter suburban routes would be more reliable as they are not snarled up in the city for the first part of their journey meaning DB can better serve these areas

My 2 cents