Fitch downgrades Ireland

  • Fitch downgrades Ireland’s AAA rating
  • Govt - majority stake in banks could be advantageous
  • Govt debt seen jumping on back of “bad bank” plan
  • Bank shareholders face “pain”

ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/04 … -negative/

I wonder how low our rating will go.

Take your pick

Yes and these rating agency cowboys have escaped the last 9 months with fat fees in hand and absolutely zero credibility. Nice work when you can get it.

The same bank shareholders that are down 98% in two years?

Hold the front page…

Why doesn’t somebody start a thread called “Reasons why I hate ratings agencies” instead of writing the same shit every time there’s a change in credit ratings.

Can anyone envision a scenario where UK/US/Japan etc get downgraded by these guys? Or does it only apply to smaller countries that lack clout.

Not that I want to shoot the messengers or anything, but I reckon if (?!) the UK was in bigger trouble, would it be downgraded? I think not.

But each time they downgrade there is a new reason! :wink:

The negligence of these very same rating agencies are one of the main reasons the world financial systems are in meltdown.

These very same rating agencies gave wholly misleading ratings on the sub-prime morgages packaged as good investments and sold all over the world. They are totally lacking in any semblance of independence and basically say what they are paid to say. Their downgrading of Ireland is a publicity stunt and is of no real importance.

The people in charge of these rogue agencies should be in jail. Their opinions are absolute muck. :imp:

That just isn’t right IMO. Yes, their ratings for structured financial products were terrible but that doesn’t mean the rating agencies caused this mess.

The structured products were bought almost exclusively by profesional investors and any profesional investor who believed they were getting an 2% extra yield on AAA bond for no extra risk really should consider a change of career.

Who is paying them to say Ireland is riskier than it used to be? Publicity for whom? I just don’t see the angle in frivolously downgrading sovereign credibility.

Sovereign credibility? That’s pushing it a bit really jon, all countries are so irretrievably tied to their banking institutions, it’s not really hard to see where the percentage might be…

It’s a self perpetuating industry.

So you should be able to answer my questions: who’s paying Fitch and who’s trying to get publicity for downgrading Ireland?

I already answered your question.

Fitch are paying Fitch in this instance, without this constant rating and slating, the bond markets become boring and mundane and probably alot more stable. Hence no moula for rating agencies, either putting investment research together or whatever… Maybe financial journalists are a little to blame to for prodding and goading them into soundbites, it’s not unknown for these journalists to be heavily reliant on press releases for their copy! :smiling_imp: :wink:

I don’t buy it. The really lucrative work for ratings agencies is bespoke research anyway. In any case, Fitch lagged the market on the downgrade. Surely you’re aware of where Irish bonds have been trading recently. Do you think ratings agencies should ignore what the markets are telling them and persist with AAA ratings for countries that nobody regards as AAA anymore? That’s like Irish brokers maintaining their ‘buy’ calls on Anglo right up until nationalisation (which at least one did). This was a routine adjustment by an organisation that has many bigger fish to fry. We in Ireland are just a bunch of drunks looking for our keys under a streetlight.

You’re not helping your original argument, they are self publicisers creating their own industry, and are generally mired in conflicting engagements that force them to purloin their independent analyses, I agree entirely!

They are about as independent as Jackie Healy Rae.

I was talking generally and not just about Ireland in any case so whether we’re drunk and looking for our keys, we’re not the only ones! S&P / Fitch might aswell be Kramer at this rate…

They probably get some fees for rating Gov Bonds.

I’ve plenty of problems with rating agencies. But other posts suggesting they’re seeking publicity or trying to do us down are wrong.