Fitch, warning over buy-to-let investors, 45% in neg. equity

tribune.ie/business/article/2010/aug/01/fitch-issues-warning-over-buy-to-let-investors/

Good thing the Irish banks got into the securitisation game - otherwise we’d never get this level of transparency on loan.

Met an elderly couple who bought a 2 bed apt in Dublin city centre about 20 years ago for their kids to stay whilst in college.
They paid either €20,000 or €40,000 for it (I can’t quite recall).

Anyway, the mortgage should be almost paid off with any interest and capital repayments easily covered by rent.

Unfortunately however, they decided to remortgage and remortgage throughout the years, the last of which occured 5 years ago when they were both retired.
They used it as an ATM.

Lo and behold, they are now in their 70s and up to their necks in negative equity.

Whilst the banks are not blameless, it was frustrating for me to listen to them blame everyone else for their current predicament.
Sometimes you just gotta bite your tongue.

They probably have a PPR they could sell to clear the NE and move into the appartment.

Sometimes you just have to take a kick in the balls in life. That is what this couple have to endure. Whether you were part of the spiral upwards or not you will have to just accept a swift hard kick sometimes. Life is not always fair

sounds like this 70 something couple got a nice deal. plenty of money from the bank to piss away as they wish, with a pretty much guarantee they won’t be alive to pay it back. I doubt they are losing sleep over it. And now that S Fitzpatrick et al have taught us all how to protect our remaining assets, we have multiple ways to get immunity from the greedy bankers who selfishly want their money back

A 2 bed apt in a good city centre location is still purportedly worth around €200k (granted, there’s no market at present). To be up to their necks in negative equity at this point they must have done a serious amount of re-mortgaging over the years

Frankly, I agree with the Bulls Bears and Boomshackla.

Pin posters often complain about the sense of entitlement of the Celtic Tiger generation, meaning people in their 20s and 30s, but frankly, speaking from personal experience, people in their 70s can be just as bad .

And thats with free travel, medical card, TV licence etc,etc,etc…

Shit happen’s.

I was in the RDS today, our first time… great day out… but all those “negequits” having a lunch in the Blossom Lounge at €35 a head, no young families in that gaff. We brought a picnic, and watched the Punch and Judy show, amoungst other things.

Mine are 9 and 10…€3600 a year for private health…

Being a Christian of strong faith, I would descibe those people as “greedy” and I hate greed.

Well, I know where you’re coming from, but €35 for lunch is not particularly excessive, surely? That said, I don’t have kids. Biggest cost centre known to mankind, from what I hear.

How come we not been hearing more stories about foreclosures on BTL properties? My understanding is that the moratorium does not apply to BTL, so I’d have expected some news or stats on this sector at some point in recent months. Don’t recall anything though.

€35 to me is excessive for a lunch, with or without wine, which was free…(as it should be its Blossom Hill, cat piss has the same colour and better taste… as I was told :smiley: )

I suppose my little point is that when you are in your 70’s, your discretionary spend (and good luck to them) is higher that someone like me 43, as we need to balance a budget every week, and even in our case which would be “high income” excess of €100k, but I caught my head on the fridge door Monday and I wasn’t going to A&E for €100, my wife “steristripped” it…and I survived.

What about the poor fecker who’s “child plays with a knife”, he has no choice… €100 and a 5 hr wait, and we hear of “sad stories” of people in their 70’s broke due to greed… free everything for them, in a society that is broken.

There are those who will advocate that the “served their time for the country”, I really question that, in that returning FF time after time, and then demanding free medical cards…etc…etc… and FF rising the Pension by 144% in 6 years… bubble economics with a compliment of greed to those who should have stood up and said NO… now their NO is NOT ME… chaps my arse.

Christ, are we heading for a new reverse snobbery now? Back in the “Tiger” days people boasted how much they were spending compared to others. Now we’re to castigate everyone for anything that looks like excess to us, personally. I vote to call it the “Celtic Mangy Dog era”.

Not everyone voted FF, not everyone “demanded” medical cards. In any case, I suspect you will find a small minority in *any *age cohort that voted against their own interests.

You’re assuming they weren’t using the PPR as an ATM as well.

The annual Porsche Cayenne upgrades, the 3 or 4 5-figure holidays a year, and the complete refit and redesign of the PPR every couple of years were quite capable of leaving them with no or negative equity even in a PPR that’s still nominally worth 7 figures.

This particular securitisation ( Fastnet 8 ) is very recent. It would be comprised of top of the market loans in the main…2006-2008 vintage ones.

I would be much more worried were Fastnet 2 underwater or were ‘credit enhancements’ required on Fastnet 2

I would equally be intrigued were AIB to admit to having done a ‘credit enhancement’ on their Clogher Securities floating note issued a year ago and underpinned by Irish Mortgages from the same era as Fastnet 8

Like I really give a sweet phuck about those in negative equity regardless of their age , socio economic grouping or intelligence level.

With NAMA , I , like alot of others who didn’t get involved in the property march to the edge of the cliff are suddenly being taxed to plug the hole and the bigger the hole gets , the more we’ll need to pay.

Negative Equity suffers are the bottom rung of the ladder. The banks , the public service/gov all need to be paid 1st. Landlords in negative are just bottom feeders and deserve absolutely no consideration and no sympathy.

Bringing old fashioned morality into the equation , GREED is one of the 7 deadly sins…and for good reason !

Well, I had a minor cycling accident a few years back and when I presented myself in hospital I was seen within five minutes of arrival. There was no cost, IIRC. If you arrive in casualty with a head injury, in my experience, you are seen more or less straight away. These days, I wear a helmet. :laughing:

I have had both good and not-so-good experiences with the health service overall, but a good friend of mine had a very sick child a few years back and he has nothing but praise for the health service.

That said, I’m inclined to agree with you as regards the entitlement mentality of some of the elderly cohort, based on personal experience.

Anyone? I do find this rather perplexing, unless such foreclosures are happening and I just haven’t heard or read about it.

Jeez Bob , with 100,000 grand a year and even with with a couple of kids I think you can afford a trip to A + E . How come you are not private on that kind of money while feeling free to put the boot into the over 70’s ?

I met plenty of young professsionals back in 2001 /3 and onwards who discribed Bertie as a gunius .

My 75 year old Dad has actually banned a close relative from the house for even surgesting that FF once did him a favour over 40 years ago .

We are private, but you still pay €100 then claim it back next year, not my point either…