Fr Sean Healy is at it again

RA is a major hinderance in this. Not the basic dole money. I really think that single people claiming RA should be made to go for interviews for these types of jobs or have the allowance cut. If single people can come here, find work, house themselves and live (in their opinion) a pretty ok life then why can’t those on the dole?

So, there are lots of jobs and they pay more than what one gets on the dole (even though, apparently, twice the money one gets on the dole is still “not great”) but somehow the dole is the only thing keeping people from taking up jobs. Am I right?

No, you’re wrong, see where I wrote:

RA is a major hinderance in this. Not the basic dole money.

Also (and I don’t mean to speak for onlyone) see where he wrote:

as in more than one benefit.

My friend would not be entitled (not that she looked) to RA, so she had no choice but to take a job where the pay is twice the dole, which is not great it’s ok, but not great, yet those on the dole, in receipt of RA refuse to take these jobs as it means they would have to pay their own rent.


Funny, it seems to me that the unemployment rate has increased by quite a bit in recent years. And yet the situation that is alleged in this thread has presumably been in existence for years if not decades.

So, to summarise the view being expressed: jobs are plentiful but social welfare is so generous that the jobs go begging.

I ask: how does this picture square with the fact that the unemployment rate has risen so precipitously?

We had 4% unemployment during the boom/bubble, so actually this situation was not going on for years/decades.


Indeed, and with all those jobs going begging the question is why has it not come down in recent times?

No, the question is: why did it rise from 4% to 14%?

I think we know that though. It’s been very well documented here. The real question is how can people from other countries ( I know my story is anecdotal, but I have heard of more and onlyone verified it) take up employment within days of coming here? That is the question RD.

There are jobs, the pay may not be all that great - but the bar here is set against what you can claim for sitting at home - that is a low bar in my opinion.

Because the construction sector heavily promoted by the government, stimulated through tax reliefs, lax lending regulation, zoning policies and pure corruption, collapsed.

So there are jobs in everything save construction?

There is work everywhere but your dear government is putting obstacles in place. It is clear that the minimum wage and welfare payments price the labour at the lower end of productivity off the market. Even @25k/year people are finding hard to find employees, and that is the kind of salary considered quite good in most of Europe (this is where public service isn’t overpaid so cost of living is lower).

Why are you doing that? Job losses after 2007 and available jobs in 2012 are not the same thing. What exactly is your gripe?

So many misconceptions in such a short text. Bravo.

  1. “your dear government”: I’m hardly a fan of the government.
  2. What kind of life is it possible to have in Ireland (particularly Dublin, where most jobs are located) on €25k per annum?
  3. Are you really claiming that the cost of living in Ireland is high because the public service is overpaid? Can you provide any support for that assertion?

They are still yours though.

A very good one if you are single and debt free.

It really shows in your posts though how you feel that this income is low, I said it wasn’t great, but to you it’s like the equivalent of food stamps in the states.

It is not a bad income, many people live on it, many more should be able to, yet their sense of entitlement is only second to yours.

I realise that most on the pin are single, white, young males. But what if you’re not? What if you’re middle-aged and have a family. Is €25k per annum enough to have a life?

Even if you’re single and young, you’re hardly living large. Rent and utilities will eat up most of your take-home. If you need a car, that’ll take another fair whack.

Oh, please. You yourself said the money was “not great” and now that that fact is inconvenient for your position, you claim it’s “not bad.” Of the “many people [who] live on it” how many are only able to do so by incurring woeful amounts of debt? Ever occur to you that maybe this is a big part of the problem: labour’s (as opposed to capital’s) low take of the productivity gains these last decades led many to have to supplement their living standards on credit. The genius of capital: first we underpay, then we charge interest on what our workers actually need to live on. Think this and the resultant polarisation of society into haves and have-nots might have anything to do with the worldwide credit bubble?

As for the rest of what you say: Is nobody worth what they earn? As it happens, I’m no longer even in Ireland, so that exempts me from any lectures about my “sense of entitlement.” Or, to put it another way, yes I sure as hell am worth it because I trained long and hard in order to become very good at what I do. My departure was Ireland’s loss. Feel free not to believe that in the typical Irish nobody-should-ever-get-up-themselves-because-ultimately-we-are-all-wretched way.

It remains a fact that €25,000 per annum is not a lot to live on in a country as expensive as Ireland is.

And you’re willing to cheat the taxpayer…

It would seem that significantly reducing benefits as soon as someone takes a low paid job creates very high effective marginal tax rates for the lowly paid. That our system is structured to impose the highest tax rates on the lowest income earners is cruel and unfair. It’s the welfare trap argument.

I think that we should phase out welfare as non-welfare income rises. The goal should be to have a tax system that is integrated with welfare to deliver similar effective net-of-welfare marginal tax rates regardless of income.

Maybe negative income tax is the answer.

There are UNSKILLED jobs in this country with salaries of 25k being turned down everyday. Are we really underpaid? You can seriously say that?

I suppose Cambridge is cheap as chips is it?

I wonder how many years of college it takes? I wonder how much the student loan is?

You are seriously deluded. But you’re not alone.

I know people working on money like that. They live OK, but not as comfortably as if they both made more money (couple, both architects, 7 years training and at least 5 years experience (going rate is sub 30k p.a.)). They are not borrowing, and can live ok and sustain outdoors hobbies.

These days there are are better opportunities elsewhere, so they’re moving to Germany shortly.

I don’t understand this point! Why does a sense of entitlement depend entirely on geographic location?

I also did many years of training (10 years of formal education, plus a post-doc). It entitles you to nothing, but if you do it right it may increase your odds of making a good living. Do it wrong and it’ll undermine your total earning potential (especially due to foregone income). Notwithstanding your earlier disclaimer, I would say that your comment betrays a massive sense of entitlement.

The question is not whether it is a lot of money, it is whether it makes sense that a job cannot be filled at this income level. Unfortunately, we do not live in Lake Wobegon, not all children are above average, and not all salaries are comfortable to live on. Some are high, some low, some average. Plus, we compete internationally, so external benchmarking is important too.