France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?


#66

Police exhausted ahead of Saturday
**“We’ve never experienced this, it’s not even policing, it’s urban violence we’re dealing with, we’ve got the extreme left, the extreme right, suburban youths coming to take advantage of looting shops…” - policeman **
Police Union Tables Strike Notice
The union Vigi joined the movement of yellow vests calling for an indefinite strike from Saturday
“It is time to organize legally and to be in solidarity with them, for the benefit of all,” wrote the officials of the trade union


#67

Vigi have less than 4% support in the police rank and file and are a CGT affiliate union. So less to the story than meets the eye. Now if one of the big two police unions makes a public announcement of this types, thats a big deal.


#68

The next French prime minister?..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_de_Villiers

causeur.fr/macron-pierre-de-villiers-gilets-156781

…and all over the French media the last few days.

A popular General steps forwards to save France from “civil war”.

Plus ca change.


#69

I mean regular folks will get sick of self appointed enforcers on street corners and criminals looting and damaging property.

You think folks in Paris will appreciate outsiders smashing their city up ?

You think parents will be happy schools are taken over by hoodlums and their kids can’t get an education ?

If Macron is smart he’ll wait for the public to tire of it all. Which they will. These yellow vests are just a mob.


#70

On the plus side I’ll be glad to see yellow vests ditched, there are many other high visibility options available that don’t look cheap. The bloody things attract wasps too!


#71

@taipeir
The choice seems to be…(from the perspective of the protestors)
apparent perpetual austerity & status quo
OR
temporary riots & change.


#72

Thats not how France works. Even in normal times. And we are not in normal times. In the last few days we have gone beyond 1968. Veering into 1961 territory. But without the OAS.

Still close on 80% support for the gilet jaunes. Even 52% of those who voted for Macron support them. A very interesting stat on its own. Macron was voted in on less than 25 % of the electorate. With an unprecedented number of spoiled votes. He has acted like he got some overwhelming mandate to change from the electorate whereas as he was only being tolerated on sufferance. Which has now run its course.

Macron no longer governs France. So it will be interesting to see who steps into the vacuum. There is a precedent for resignation. Voluntary or forced. DeGaulle did it in 1969. So there could be fresh presidential elections before 2022.


#73

Apparently they have another list of demands.

  • cut taxes to 25% of GDP (so half current levels)
  • better public services/massive hiring of civil servants
  • Leave EU & NATO
  • Default on public debt
  • New constitution
  • less immigration
  • Scrap CFA Franc in W Africa. (First time I ever heard of this) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc

If that list is true there really is something in there for everyone .


#74

Tuppenceworth: It won’t be just in Paris and France tonight that people are wondering and waiting, apprehensive – will it all kick off tomorrow big time or will the street action be more subdued than last week? If it kicks off big time, then we should all start worrying; if it’s just more of the same or less, then we’re probably ok here for the next while.


#75

On the plus side at least they’re not nostalgic for France’s empire like Britain is.

I knew CFA was linked to the Euro but I don’t see how Paris has any say in it if other countries link to the Euro, it’s like saying it’s a Dublin decision too! Even non EU countries like Montenegro and Kosovo use the Euro, and Ecuador, Panama, Zimbabwe, and Cambodia amongst others use or are pegged to the USD.


#76

What is even more interesting is just how little support in even the more traditional media there is for Macron. I’m talking middle of the road media who usual back the forces of order, the dignity of the state and the status quo when push come to shove. Remarkable prevarication today in places like Le Parisien, Le Point and even Les Echos. Making very clear distinction between the police and security services, who are just doing their job, and those in the superior offices who are giving the orders. Some remarkable articles about how close the police came to firing in Paris last weekend when the police semi-automatic rifle was stolen by rioters. And alluding to the broadcast TV montages showing off duty policemen joining the gilet jaune lines opposite their on duty colleagues. Nothing like this happened in 1968. Even at the siege of the Renault factory were attempts were made to actively subvert and turn the police on the lines.

I suppose we will all be watching BTMTV tomorrow. Unless things get really nasty. When I expect the Elysee to use its exceptional powers to shut down the media for public order and defense of the state. Which in this case would be all live feeds from field reporters and just tense looking talking heads in the studio not being able to allude to the fact the ministerial order has been enacted.

The weather forecast is for a cold wet and stormy afternoon in central Paris. So the tear gas wont be of much use. So it will be baton rounds, baton charges, or something more serious, if the situation really kicks off.

Lets hope for a wet miserable anti-climax tomorrow. Because the alternative does not bear thinking about.


#77

Eh? Because that’s because they never got rid of it. Just changed its name. Its the Françafrique now. They tried mighty hard to hang on to Indochine and French North Africa but after that the Presidents Office was very careful in placing hand picked “presidents” in the remaining “independent” colonies. The rest being turned into TOM/DOM’s.

Why do you think the French military has “intervened” so often in the various domestic affairs of their “independent” colonies over the last 50 years? At the moment there are French troops stationed in Chad, Mali, Cote D’Ivoire, Gabon, Senegal and the CAR and I know people who fought in very serious bush wars in at least two of those countries.

Once Iain Macleod and MacMillian decided, fuck this, we are out of here, in the late '50 the UK decolonized in Africa very quickly. Rhodesia was not a crown colony and neither was South Africa which is why they got complicated. London did not have the final word. The Portuguese tried to hang on to their colonies but after the Salazar regime fell in 1974 the colonies were quickly dumped by the new socialist government into “independence”. Which was decades of bloody civil war.

The French on the other hand just renamed everything, held onto everything, and ruled the former colonies in the indirect way most of British India was ruled. Most French people know this and dont have the slightest problem with it. Why be nostalique for what was never lost. Algerie, on the other hand, is not nostalgia. Its simple mourning for the lost homes, lost way of life, and the many many lost lives. On both sides.


#78

That was part of the reason why Gaddafi was ended, according the some sources…

foreignpolicyjournal.com/20 … ervention/


#79

That list of demands earlier reads like a mix of Sinn Fein and Independents i.e. pie in the sky.

Bet you this thing blows over in a few weeks . Fuel tax is toast already. Rest is the usual hyperbole.from yourself.

Oh yeah Macron still governs France.

Where’s rhe latest survey of 80% support for rioters? Dont believe it.


#80

Not really, he’s still in office after this he won’t get much done, does he qualify for a pension yet

I think a solid majority support the protesters but not the rioters


#81

@taipeir
Those demands aren’t meant to be taken seriously. (In the sense that they’d don’t expect macron to delivery. Because they know he could never do any of those things. They’re a political statement.)


#82

Your reading comprehension is not the best then. I said support the gilet not the casseurs.

elabe.fr/gilets-jaunes-5decembre/

Know the different?

In fact do you know anything about French politics and society apart from snippets you obviously miscomprehend in the anglophone media? You obviously are not familiar what the whole egalite, solidarite, fraternite concept which is the founding principal of all French political parties of the republic. Which the demands all fit within perfectly consistently given the context of French political debate. They fact that they might be mutually incompatible is irrelevant.

I suggest you keep to the parish pump cute hoorery of Irish politics. Which is obviously your level of political comprehension.

Watching French TV tonight what’s interesting is that no has a clue what is going to happen tomorrow. Even the usually strongly opinionated pundits always good for an emphatic prognostication. No one has a fucking clue what is going to happen. I dont. Lets hope for a very wet miserable day and go from there.


#83

Correct. He will be in office but not in power. Much like Hollandes last two years. And given the internal dynamics of LREM I’m not sure if Macron will be given the option of hanging on as a 5 year lame duck. He has no party base, he has no natural constituency, he has no regional base. Basically a figurehead.

Actually I think Macrons negatives are now even worse than Hollands at the end of his term. So Macron has achieved in his second year what it took Holland almost 5 years to achieve. To become the most unpopular president of the modern republic.

To say the current situation is unprecedented is an understatement. I remember when they made a huge deal when Mitterrand lost the assembly elections and there had to a cohabitation with Chirac as Prime Minister. It was as if the republic had failed. That was a minor hiccup in comparison with the events of the last few weeks. When you have well know historians in moderate middle of the road French newspapers make blunt comparisons with the lead up to 1789 you know the situation is pretty serious.


#84

Macron is still the President. Fuel tax has been dumped. The list of demands is laughable. Rioters will be suppressed.
Yellow shirts will all be home for Xmas dinner.
Locals in all those towns and villages will already be getting sick of these local layabouts disrupting their daily business. They weren’t elected by anybody and have no business blocking traffic and inspecting cars , giving their ‘permission’ …I know human nature…Same around the world.


#85

@taipeir
On va voir