Freedom Of Speech, Freedom Of Expression


#1

The Social Democrats.

That’s great news.

Until you read this…

And we know what minority religion we’re talking about here.

socialdemocrats.ie/2017/07/09/s … y-offence/


#2

Outlawing ‘Hate Speech’ is so incredibly dangerous, as there is always a political agenda behind those who define what it constitutes.

Europe needs an equivalent to America’s First Amendment pronto.


#3

That’ll never happen in Europe. In some European countries you can be sent to prison for denying the holocaust for example.


#4

No, there is always a political agenda behind those who use ‘hate speech’. If you can’t argue your point without resorting to lies, generalities, exaggerations or bullshit then you shouldn’t be given free reign to spread crap under the guise of ‘free speech’.


#5

And quite rightly IMO. Unlimited freedom of speech is not a universal good.


#6

Hmm, :confused: I still think there’s a difference between idiocy, even willful idiocy and incitement to violence. Encouraging or condoning genocide can justifiably be punished with jail in the interest of public safety. For denying verifiable historical events in the face of all evidence, mockery and public humiliation are probably more appropriate, if reasoned argument won’t work.


#7

Hmmm. You’ve read some of what’s posted here?

I think the “I was only quoting someone else” defense is worn a little thin. And the trolls always have more time than the rest of us, because we pay for them to sit on their hoops spewing this stuff forth. Mock one ID enough and another one pops up. Remove general anonymity (i.e. the type of anonymous that’s possible to discover the identity of by the telco) so only the brave or the rich get to speak (like Facebook tried to do) or limit the absolute right to free speech.

Besides, the line is a slippery one :?] - from Holocaust denier, to atrocity denier, to nazi sympathiser, to racial superiority, etc.


#8

I have and I still think that the appropriate response is to show they’re wrong and if that won’t work, to ignore them and encourage others to do the same. Until it can be shown that they genuinely threaten my safety, I really don’t have time to be bothered with them.

Opinions don’t harm me. Actions do. I draw the line at incitement and until then, my best defence is my confidence in my own superiority, whether I can be bothered to express it or not. :smiley:
These people are twats and deep down, they probably know it, even if they’ll never admit it, even to themselves, while their hate is turned outwards. I’m too idle to hate, even if I wanted to, which I don’t. I do have an interest in self preservation, but I honestly am not interested in controlling what people think or say, beyond ensuring that no physical harm is done. I have better things to do with my time.

I might be arrogant in my egotism, but I try to exhibit it with the greatest humility and I make my best effort to be gracious in my contempt. :wink:


#9

Isn’t it slipperier on the other side though?

Free speech for all- with exceptions for defamation, incitement to violence and shouting “fire” in a theatre has set limits.
On the other side, should claiming the mass killing of Armenians by Turkey is a genocide (or is not a genocide) be banned? Is it ok to ban one of those possibilities in Turkey?

If the aim is to prevent coles2’s: "
If you can’t argue your point without resorting to lies, generalities, exaggerations or bullshit then you shouldn’t be given free reign to spread crap under the guise of 'free speech"

Then you would need perhaps 100 or more police to record track and research every citizen- “I’m giving 110% to this” “let the state be the judge of that-you are under arrest”.
Otherwise banning statements is simply an arbitrary exercise of power by the state to ban what it does not like- e.g. denying or banning the denial of the Armenian genocide.


#10

Whereas now the Turkish state gets to spread its poison without limits. We live in a time without limits on the state sponsored spread of lies. You’d better believe that there are states doing this.

Yes.

It’s not about banning statements per se. Or individuals particularly. What it is is a recognition that our liberal disinterest is being abused by bad actors and providing a way to do something about it. We need to stand up for our liberties against those who seek to use them against us.


#11

But then you have governments/institutions/MSM abusing this system to force their views and opinions on people.
Can’t win either way


#12

Exactly all opposition parties want free speech… until they get into power.


#13

On the subject of free speech I can’t find a better argument that Justice Brandeis’s


#14

In reality of course there is no such thing as freedom of speech:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St … exceptions


#15

That’s like saying that “there is no such thing as freedom to own property/the right to life/right to personal liberty/right to fair procedures/right to bodily integrity” etc. - or perhaps more broadly “everything is meaningless - including this sentence”.


#16

None of those things do exist in any absolute sense. The government allows those ‘rights’ and determines exactly to what extent those ‘rights’ apply.

The question should really be is it a good idea to suppress a particular form of speech or allow it. Free speech is just a meme, it doesn’t exist and never has. That entire way of looking at the world/belief system is mostly brainwashing.


#17

Warming up to the prize.

Here is one of the NGO fronts (INAR) being used to attack your mind, capture your inalienable right of freedom of speech and expression to basically dismantle your entire way of living.

Always read the end

"What all minorities need in order to be able to live as equals is for our Government and institutions to bring their weight to tackle racism and discrimination, and the conditions which foster racist and discrimination.

We have the promise of Hate Crime legislation this year, and that is welcome. We also need measures to tackle hate speech in the online environment, and we need to climb the steep slopes of our institutions if we are to tackle institutional racism and the systemic racism it enables,” he said.

“It’s been a bad year for everyone and racism and hate crime have made it an even worse one for all minorities,” he added.

Bad year, set to get worse.

These NGO’s are heavily funded, facilitated by a permanent free-pass in the media, they act as defacto-political and provisional political groups without the same oversight or corrective measures as per mainstream politics, i.e. the ballot box - there is never an existential threat to their existence and ability to operate, because there funding comes from tax payers and external sources, they have totally infiltrated and integrated into Gov sector with funding to the tune of billions funnelled into this makey-up-sector with the sole agenda of dismantling your nation, your country and your future as you assumed would remain in place, your inalienable rights and your children childlresn children, always angling to undermine the basis of the state at with pin-point accuracy to key structural points - at every turn, know them by their constant politically enabled bait & switches and their use as good cop or bad cop depending on the setup.

A classic Trojan horse.

GO back to the OP of this thread to get the full picture.


#18

Useful Idiot Politician Not Able.

“even political sympathisers and supporters seem to think now that it is fair game to give their tuppence worth to our elected representatives.”

Ah Regina regina regina, you were happy to court the baying mob to start the unfettered killing of the defenceless innocent unborn children in the wombs of women, children of men on an industrial scale, then you went and locked them all up and told them you came in peace and safety.

“A number of colleagues have discussed online abuse. I can only say that it feels like the abuse of politicians at every level has shifted from third gear to maybe sixth gear.

“Members have asked for a debate on this issue, and I will certainly try to facilitate that after Easter, in the next number of weeks. It has got to a level where we have all gone down such a dangerous rabbit hole that I do not know where we will end up, looking at the level of discourse.

“I do not know whether it is true of our male colleagues here today, but I know from my female colleagues that it is commonplace for them to come into this House, open their emails and receive the most vile and disgusting threats. It is as if people do not think that they have any responsibility for the words they use.

“The discourse appears on a daily basis on all of our social media channels and it is now in our inboxes. It has to stop.

“A few weeks ago we talked about encouraging more women and young people into public life. One would want to be absolutely off one’s bloody rocker to encourage one’s children to come into this life and to have to put up with the abuse that we have to put up with on a daily basis.

Even though many might not agree with Regina, it’s great a politician feels safe and assured that they can be candidate about their preferences in life, and that sure needs to be defended.

But of course that’s now where this is going is it…

However, we are the only people who can change it and we must do something about it. It needs to start with a debate with the Minister for Justice in the next few weeks, which I will organise.

Total setup.


Digital Green Certificate Regulation probably to be enacted Tomorrow (25th March 2021)
#19

No Joke

“It is a deeply sexist trope used to dehumanise women and is exactly the type of behaviour that deters women from going into politics,” she said.

So woman are not just a collection off cells no?

“Ireland is currently ranked 101st globally for female parliamentarians – which is hardly a position to be proud of – and cultural institutions such as the media do play a significant role in shaping society’s perception of women.

“This gendered abuse is becoming an increasing barrier to women entering public office.”

She rejected the argument that the cartoon was meant to be satirical rather than sexist.

“Satire cannot be used as a cover for misogyny,” she said. “This is a time-honoured tool used for smearing women.


#20

The Hate Speech bill is making it’s way through the oirechtas already…

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2020/52/