Full scale bail-out mode in Sunday Indo

The only reason I read the Sunday Indo these days is to get my quota of outrage for the week :slight_smile: It’s all doom and gloom in the Indo this week and the annual Indo stamp duty campaign is ramping up with the budget in sight.

First we have this odd front page article “Do we really trust the college boys”
independent.ie/national-news … 18384.html

Here, we go stirring up resentment against the perceived “elites”. If any of you think you’ve seen this before, it’s par for the course with Karl Rove & his 2000 Republican campaign. (worked very well too might I add). Watch for the word “liberal” being thrown around shortly.

Next, builders want state cash
independent.ie/national-news … 18391.html

See all those old people dying on trolleys in our hospitals? Fuck 'em, what have they ever given Ireland, more money for property is what we need.

Damn banks! This is a chilling example of someone not realising the market is 20 percent below what they think it is.

Brilliant! Why stop at 3% though, why not 1% or zero percent? If the government is going to borrow to provide subsidised loans, why not buy everyone in the country a house tomorrow? That will certainly get the construction industry going.

More doom and gloom (it’s everywhere)
independent.ie/national-news … 18411.html

Shock, horror and outrage as Minister dares to tell the truth

Thank the lord, I think I see lifeboats arriving.

Today’s Sindo is like a scene from Apocalypse Now. There must be about a dozen economy/property doomsday articles in it. And Bertie accused the likes of us on the pin of being doom mongers! They want the government to borrow 100 billion to give to the banks to reflate the bubble, they also want tax cuts and of course stamp duty makes it’s obigatory appearance. The Sindo warn of a coming 40% property value crash in the coming months because of the banks lending grinding to a halt.
Oh and BTW Fungus Fanning voted No to Lisbon. :slight_smile:

The government borrow billions to bail out the property market, then have to go to the EU to explain breaching the stability and growth pact.

Now that would be interesting. I bet our ECB friends would love that sort of prudent financial management.

“Oh and by the way, we voted no to Lisbon”

The denial phase of the bubble is coming to an end for the builders. It burst two years ago, but there was enough work in the pipeline (developments sold off the plan etc) to keep things ticking over for another couple of years.

If there is a material risk to their business that the management/directors are aware of, but they’re not informing the owners (the shareholders), then they are deceiving the owners of the business. People who are buying shares in these banks, without being informed of these alleged commercial risks/difficulties are also being deceived.

I don’t know if there are criminal sanctions in Ireland for this, but there may well be a case to answer if it turns out that there are major difficulties with the loan book of any of the big banks, and they have not disclosed this information in a timely manner to the stock market.

There is also potential for class actions by disgruntled shareholders who purchased stock in between when the problems became known about, and the time they were disclosed to the market.

I don’t believe that telling the truth is a choice for publicly quoted companies like Irish banks, it’s an obligation.

Burying your head in the sand and pretending that problems do not exist is not going to make them go away. The banks advise borrowers to inform lenders of their situation and seek help early, to avoid small problems turning into massive problems. Seems the banks would be wise to adopt the same position with their own shareholders if they are hiding something.

The Irish Stock Exchange should be writing to all Irish banks whose stock price has fallen precipitously, and asking them if there is any price sensitive information in their possession that the market is not being made aware of. It is not unusual for a Stock Exchange to make such enquiries of a company when if there are large price movements in either direction, with no accompanying news to explain the price movement.

So the market has effectively crashed by 36% already.

And that is what they should have been all along and now we wouldn’t be in this mess.

why build more houses to keep the show going? that will only add to the supply, unless the houses are being built in Ballygobackwards (I love that term! congrats to the originator) so a few buolders can get one last hurrah before emigrating to Dubai with monies belonging to the Irish people.

The governemnt cannot prevent the crash A few thieves and cute hoors are looking for last knuckle duster smash n grab on the exchequer. The guys who made millions over the past decade are looking for more money. go get stuffed.

Anybody got links to those articles?

So the banks (who provide 90% of the finance for properties) are valuing property at what they believe they think it’s actually worth?

The cheek of them.

So just give Paddy and Mary the 300k they want, and if they stop paying their mortgage for wahtever reason, you can always sell their house/shoebox for 200k.

Sure that’s grand so…

There was “no problem with the valuation”, because that’s what those properties were achieving on the open market. You’ve dropped your price by 20%, but you still can’t sell. The bank thinks if you dropped the price by another 20%, you could sell it. They’re probably right.

You’re selling product into a collapsing bubble and your margins are going to get creamed. Tough.

It sounds to me like the problem is with the builder’s valuation, not the bank’s.

The difference being that the doom mongers from a year or two ago were warning that all was not well, when today’s doom mongers like the Indo were talking things up and sucking in the last round of marks.

Also, doom mongers of old weren’t asking for tax payers money to be used to bail anyone out. Quite the opposite we were asking for less tax breaks.


independent.ie/national-news … 18384.html

Thats the first line, I almost stopped reading there. What complete BS. How can they be one of the most disastrous governments, theyve only been in office a couple of weeks.

And the article is anonymous and unsigned, which is a criticism that the Indo itself made against bloggers and forums some weeks ago.

And what about the colon after “Jesus:”. Whats that for? Punctuation error in the first word of a front page article. Sad.

I too was shocked by the character assassination.

It left me wondering if that was a show of disapointment at the Finance minister’s lack of cooperation in recent discussions with Waterford shareholders.

Waterford crystal are the least of the gubberment’s worries at the moment.

We could be on the verge of a banking crisis. These secret “crisis” meetings (as reported in today’s Sindo and here on the pin) that have been going on over the last couple of weeks have my alarm bells ringing.

Sindo front page pdf

independent.ie/independent.i … 080622.pdf

There is also a huge add for the Halifax offering 5% interest on 2500 to 1 million euros :wink:

I don’t want old Fianna Fail back. The country is fucked because of old Fianna Fail !!!

Booming on the back of cheap borrowed money ploughed into a load of overpriced fuckin shite!

Sweet Jesus, that article was penned by Smart & Ballsy himself. Well that explains a lot, doesn’t it. :smiling_imp:

There is panic in the air. Where you are on the cycle depends on how far up the debt chain you are.

I didn’t realise that the BO’C Gases was the guy who wrote the “disastrous governments” comment.

We need a smart n ballsy minister for finance. lenihan’s job will be to explain to the various departments why their budgets are being slashed by 50%.

There is going to be one massive fall-out.

No preparations have been made and no decisive decisions have been taken.

It’s in the lap of the Gods now and there’ll be chaos (i.e. a high entropy, unordered mess) when this economy implodes.

There’s nothing, absolutely nothing Brian Lenihan and his Secretary Generals/quango heads/banking chiefs can do. They’ve left it too late: their primary objective is to safeguard their own power (they’ve made their money already).

It’s damage limitation at this stage: political damage limitation. Nobody cares that people are left to pay 40 year mortgages. Nobody cares that we’ve crap, unfinished, half-arsed infrastructure. Nobody cares that people die on hospital trollies.

I cannot believe that this risible shite is front page material in the country’s biggest selling Sunday broadsheet.

It’s disturbing.

I also notice that the public comments have disappeared from certain Indo webpages, such as this one.

independent.ie/opinion/analy … 47118.html

Yep, its every man for himself at this stage and there aint enough lifeboats to go around 8)

Pathetic, but not unexpected. The Sindo have seen the way the wind is blowing, and is now trying to reposition itself as the guardian of the ordinary man on the street. Slightly ironic considering they have devoted so much of their content over the last few years to promoting the ‘Tiger lifestyle’.