Game Over for the present Gov IE, they have lost control.

No. But the things I’m disappointed about are not related to the bailout, or rather, not the immutable ones that people whinge about. I’m disappointed in:

  1. No cull of the quangos.
  2. The current cronyism fiasco.
  3. Slow pace of bankruptcy reform.
  4. The house-price index.
  5. The response to Varadkar’s comments.
  6. Still the same lack of transparency (no return to old FoI system).
  7. No NAMA register.

I could go on. Within the strictures of the MOU, there’s plenty for the government to be getting on with in terms of good government. So far, we’ve seen very little. It’s no use Pet Rabbit complaining that we are in a stratjacket. He needs to get the chalk between his toes and start scribbling on the wall.

If we weren’t already paying off bank bondholders then the market gods would lend to us.

Do people on here have a problem with time travel? I do. It doesn’t exist. Tell it to the last government two years ago.

There you go, we’re in agreement.

I think they could have done more on the renogiation myself, some more tough talk was needed and may have helped. The fact that we are actually the ones bailing out European banks isn’t really being put out there. But most of what pisses me off is the sort of stuff you are listing here - I’m not asking them to invent a time machine

What about Deja Vu…?

The last election was about giving Fianna Fail a kicking…

…nothing more, nothing less.

Is it not tough talking from Enda that is supposed to have raised Sarkozy’s hackles (ohhh, what a sight)? Anyway, Firstbass, I’m sure the government have some experience of negotiating. And maybe Enda’s statement today that some European neighbours are not helping our cause is a good thing - you know, laying it all on the table, Enda’s pissed off and he’s not going to take it anymore kinda thing.


Are you German or something ? Are you really disappointed in FG ?

FG are good Europeans . The EU has been good to Ireland with lots of cash thrown at it for roads and bridges over the years . In their hearts of hearts they think that by being a humble little state that Europe will toss them the scraps from the table .

Just pay the bills , keep going and tax everything in sight and everything will be cool .The excess will emigrate .

One of the maddest things in the ’ boom ’ was Irish politicians going to the US on their knees for a amnesty for Irish illegals , while at home they were doing their best to rid the state of their their own ’ illegals ’

Of the 7 points that you raised , they will not even tackle one as they are in incapable of doing so . No way will they tackle NAMA as that is the state and neither will they tackle Bankruptcy reform as it would mean extra pressure on the banks . And what would the ECB / EU say about that ?

Junior bonholders are being burnt…

Rengotiation of the EU/IMF deal will be slow and messy, but I think the Greeks will force the hand of the EU/ECB/IMF before we do. Public spending is due for review on a departmental basis in September, and I will be holding my breath until then to see if the govt is serious about tackling current spending levels and public sector reform.

To be prefectly frank, I am not overly impressed with Noonan so far, and his public appearances do remind me a lot of Lenihan’s ‘There is no alternative’ mantra. But I will judge them by what they achieve over the lifetime of the government (notwithstanding the 100 days baloney)…

I expect they will tackle them all in some way or another, particularly bankruptcy as it is in the MoU. They’ll have to show some ‘success’ for their time in office and they are going to get short change from the troika for the next year at least. It is the desperately slow pace of it all.

No doubt, though, they’ll stick in a few extra weeks this ‘term’ eating into their teacher’s, er, I mean, summer holidays and get a load of legislation debated… :angry:

I really hope that you are joking . Tackle bankruptcy ? They should just appoint Morgan Kelly as Finance Minister so . The MOU staes that they should just pay the bills .

The 100 day targets the teary-eyed Enda picked up from the US are proving a distraction.

Ministers are being kept busy finding the easiest, least painful items to present as accomplishments, throw in the summer break and you’ll have nothing important decided for six months and then they’re in the run into the budget.

Considering the previous admin stopped governing after the last budget we’re likely to have had a year of dithering. Apart from the raid on pensions they may have nothing to claim.

Ruairi Quinn’s been professional as ever - that’s about it though.

No it doesn’t.

It seems not everybody knows. … MFmemo.pdf

Achieving the targets is more than just meeting the financial figures. Arguably, they are less important in that they are reliant on unrealistic growth targets (that the troika signed off).

So which part of “the country is bankrupt” do you still not understand? When your country is bankrupt there can be no plan until after the creditors have finished with you. The last time Ireland had any wriggle room was early 2009. If the the Greens had pulled the plug on the Coalition back then there might have been some hope of retaining a smidgen of control. Its way too late now .

The plan since mid 2009 was not to be first to get a bailout. They were second. The plan since then has been not to be the first to be forced to default. Looks like Greece is first up. With Ireland right behind it. When a country is as bankrupt as Ireland is that is about as far as its control over its destiny goes.

After the first few weeks, when the current Government finally found out just how dire the real situation was (those must have been some very interesting DoF, DoFA ministerial briefings), the game plan was little more to keep the status quo for the short term. Not to trigger any social disruption until the default / currency crisis happened and only push through the reforms/ cuts in the upheaval and aftermath.

Unlike a lot of people here, elected politicians in Ireland have a finely honed sense of just how much pain the electorate are willing to take at any given moment. And what the current government are acutely aware of is that the last election was not a rejection of coot hoor politics and a mandate for root and branch reform, but little more than a punishment of FF for ruining the spend, spend, spend bubble party. Remember, if it had not been for bad constituency candidate management, FF would have won at least 30 seats in the last election. So if an election was held in the morning, and even if the voting patterns remained exactly the same as the recent election, FF would get 30/35 seats and would be part of the next coalition government. The lesson of many decades of South American populist politics is that electorates can remain utterly irresponsible and delusional far far longer than a country can remain solvent.

So the current government dont have a mandate to do anything except manage the default debacle as best they can. If the push through the deep cuts now they just increase social instability and increase the probability of what they are trying most to avoid, to be first to default. So those hoping for some kind of responsible government are going to have to wait until after the resolution of the bigger crisis - the disintegration of the current euro zone regime. Until the euro crisis resolves itself one way or another, which is way beyond the remit of the Irish government, everyone is just along for the ride.

Speedy reform is not as easy as you might think, the civil service are famed for their glacial approach to change. It is difficult and will take time. The removal of FF from office is the greatest achievement so far, the restoration of the minimum wage (with a view to reform of ERO’s, ERA’s and the JLC, despite Labour) and the stopping of the second tranch of loans into NAMA are notable too. The ECB could withdraw the €160 billion prop to our economy at any point causing immediate collapse, they is the reason senior debt CANNOT be touched. The willingness to impose huge losses on the junior holders is not something that would have happened under the old government. The use of external pollsters and analysts is common to the big three partys and while I’m not 100% happy about it nonetheless it is a feature of our elections now and has been for at least the last twenty years. We are signed up to the MOU and are meeting the targets in it so far, as time passes and we show that we can continue to meet the terms of the deal there will be scope for renegotiation of the interest rates and maybe some leeway in other areas. FG did not get us into this mess and the next election is along way off, give them a chance before you write them off. The legislation in the pipeline regarding property taxes, water charges, bankruptcy reform, etc. is integral to the deal and will roll out over time. Larry and Yoganmayhew are talking sense. Fierce Doherty and Boyd Before Barret et al need to get real and cop onto themselves.

I’m going to play devil’s agent for a while

a quango is merely a pejorative term for an arm of the state outside of direct control of the civil service. Often there are reasons to place a small operating group outside of a central bureaucracy. I don’t see any reason to believe that moving a small performing agency under the aegis of a Sir Humphrey will lead to efficiency gains. ‘cull of quangos’ is a newspaper cliche

I see no evidence that Ireland is more cronyism ridden than any other country of similar size. And again cronyism is often a pejorative for hiring people you know as practised by everyone everywhere in the history of the world. If I need a painter I am more likely to hire a painter I know who I know to have done a good job in the past than a painter with a good CV that I don’t know. The problem arises when people hire people they know are rubbish because they are friends.

You can declare bankruptcy in the UK. It’s not hard. rushed legislation is poor legislation. We don’t need any more moral hazard.

they’ve just introduced a CSO house price index and it looks OK to me. I’m delighted to see volume figures and the split of mortgage vs cash purchase.

Varadkar was wrong to speak the truth as he saw it. I wouldn’t tell you I thought your child was ugly even if it was the truth, would I? Varadkar was acting like a footballer who tells the other players that all is lost half way through the game. Cabinet ministers should not idly predict defaults or devaluations.

I have to agree on this and in fact very little legislation of any kind seems to be worked on since the new lot came in. When you see the week’s dail agenda and it’s all: have a chat about the queen, have a chat about the IMF, have a chat about raising the minimum wage, and no legislative items, it’s disappointing.

NAMA can’t do a register of debtors for simple legal reasons. I think they will do a register of what’s with their receivers & liquidators.

Lastly you are silly to be disappointed with FG vs FF when they have no policy or character differences. What is the difference between say Dick Roche and Phil Hogan? Slightly different face but same goals and values. know whorrameeun?

I am in agreement with you that the best policy now for Ireland is to do what the troika tells us. Let the troika set the strategy, let them set the policy details and give them very frequent updates. Work with them and ask them for direction at every hiccup along 5the way so that it becomes more and more their problem. We already have the ECB by the balls with their 160bn in our banks. Nobody’s going anywhere.

I think you may be rolling with your fingers crossed .

Old black Joe , is still picking cotton .

Oh really?

Man I must have missed those leaked DOF memos outlining the inter-governmental-party hand over formation strategy {hand rub}… the current Government have a mandate to govern end of story and as the ground moves they must adapt otherwise if they break for summer then Lenister House should be burned to the ground as a collective outrage as all ports of communication seem now to have failed and there is no indication the survival system of state are in any way able to carry us forward safely in any event. The government is continuing as an abdicating rouge agent, a tacit tactic already applied by the previous crime gang. I don’t view Sovereign Bankruptcy as some kind of financially divine and judicious sentence to be accepted like a bullet in the head. What an appalling perception.

No one seems to get my point and JMC seems to have repeated what I summed up in my last line illuminating nothing that we do not already know. There is no time left. We are no longer spectators. There is no where to hide. This is not for debate. I feel like I’ve fallen into a stupor of sanity and this another outreach program for the mildly insane.

How about for starters:

Repudiate the conversion of private company debt to sovereign debt?

Close down INBS and Anglo Irish Bank immediately instead of letting Dukes clown around with his new sinecure?

Force bondholders to share losses from businesses in which they invested and for which investments they did no due diligence to ensure their investments made sense?

Call Merkel’s bluff and tell her we are not paying for investment mistakes made by German banks?

Ditto for that poisonous midget Sarkozy?

Force local authorities to reduce costs to drive job creation?

Actually take action on bloated public service costs?

Reverse every piece of legislation enacted by the Greens?

Generally show a bit of dynamism rather than behave like the elderly cat that got the cream with his new high-profile role after having fucked-up Fine Gael and hounding dying old women whose illnesses were caused by the state?

Any more ideas anyone?