Gazundering is Good - essential reading for FTB's

Excellent advice for buyers GB!
But can it work in Ireland? Buyers here have to give a deposit to go Sale Agreed on a property? Wont they lose this deposit if they dont follow thru on the agreed price?

I had no respect for people who gazumped, I’d feel the same towards gazunderers. There must be a way to stop this is there? What do other countries do.

I dont know any seller who wouldnt accept 10k more after theyd already gone sale agreed. Wouldnt you? That was the norm not the exception during the era of rising prices.

With gazumping it was buyers that got kicked now the shoe is on the other foot, why wouldnt they kick back?

Well it would be a little unfair to reform things now, so that the sellers have the benefit of gazumping but are protected from gazundering.

If a supposed free market was good enough on the way up then it’s good enough on the way down too.

-Rd

These are typical FF tactics. I wouldn’t be surprise if such anti-gazundering laws came into play in the very near future - “to protect the hard-working property owners of this State”. Of course there’s no need to protect FTBs when the market is on the way up - they’re just insignificant little creatures who do what they’re told.

I agree that gazundering is immoral: but outlawing the practice of gazundering, whilst knowingly failing to outlaw the practice of gazumping - when it suits you - is even more immoral.

It’s a risky move to gazunder in Ireland, say I was looking for a house in Bray and placed an offer on 3 houses with different estate agents and all sales fall through. I’m left with very few estate agents I can the deal with with next time round.

I see no moral problem with prospective buyers making offers at a price which is acceptable to them to several sellers at once. Its a process of price discovery in a falling market where supply far outstrips demand. The problem arises when the buyer rescinds the offer close to exchange of contracts.

In USA and UK they are duty bound to put your offer to the vendor despite previous dealings with you where you underbid at last minute. Go to IAVI and complain if they start any sh1t with ya or go direct to vendor with offer.

Since when has morality ever had anything to do with property , either buying , selling , or renting ?

If you are a seller , your immoral aim is to squeeze every last penny out of the buyer.

If you’re a buyer , your aim is to get as cheap as possible and not get ripped off. A very hard thing to do over the last number of years :cry:

If you’re Specu vestor - to flip as many times as possible before the market deflates

If you’re an Investor to buy as much as possible with as much leverage as possible and crowd out the FTB.

If you’re an EA , to hype up the market as much as possible by dubious marketing and selling tactics. Who said they lie :laughing:

If you’re a Banker to loan as much money as possible disregarding the recipient’s abilty to repay or that their disposable income to live is non existent.

If you’re the Gov. screw the electorate for short term SD gains and pander to the Construction Industry for favours , monetary or otherwise.

Morality has nothing at all to do with the sordid property game.

I believe Scotland has anti-gazumping/gazundering rules and they work well.

Nope. You can’t lose the Sale Agreed Deposit.

What you can lose is the Contract Deposit (ie the 10% you pay on exchange of contracts). The advice is to gazunder just before exchange of contracts, thus no possible financial loss to buyer.

It depends how you approach it. A few bad things showing up in the survey is an excellent way to gazunder without looking like a complete wanker. Of course, that won’t generally work for a newish house. Re-wiring needed, no idea it cost that much, yada yada yada !!! House showing damp, etc. Oopps, I’m showing my past experience here.

5-20% seems a bit optomistic though. Up to 5% would seem a bit more realistic to me.

If everyone says that in life we’ll just end up in a downwards spiral to the lowest common denominator.

I know plenty of sellers who went sale agreed and stuck to the contract even though they could probably have got a few thousand extra from the buyer when contracts were being signed. I believe (anecdotally) that gazumping was very much a minority pursuit.

Gazundering screws over both the seller and all other potential buyers. At least with gazumping you could argue that you didn’t enter the verbal contract knowing that you were going to renege on it, gazundering is entering with false pretenses from day 1.

I can see your point but I disagree. Its not immoral for a buyer to reduce his offer price. The deal is not done until contracts are signed.
The seller has a slick and experienced sales professional representing him, using every trick in book to get him a higher price. The buyer has only himself. Why should he not use sales tactics to get a better price also? If gazundering is immoral as you say, then hiring an EA is also immoral. The aim is the same - to get a better price.

With gazumping/undering you’re deliberately deceiving someone by entering into an agreement (even if it’s not a legally enforceable one) that you don’t intend to keep. It’s clearly unethical.

The existence of gazumping doesn’t make gazundering any more legitimate; that seller you’re gazundering could have been the victim of gazumping themselves when they bought.

Sure it is, but if it saved me a couple of years of mortgage payments i would find a way to square it away with my conscience. It’s a business transaction with a stranger so it’s best kept in context. Not some hand holding let’s all be friends exercise.

Yeah great plan, just ensure you dont care about the house you are buying.

(edit … Sarcasm intended I think this idea sucks and is going to fail more often than not)

Look it, this is a dirty practice plain and simple but hey if you have no principles about the thing and think you can pull a fast one just remember these same people, who you have badly messed about, may not take such good care of their home in the last few days of occupation, if you know what I mean.
Use all your bag of tricks in the negotiating phase but once you’ve agreed on a price and date, show some honour. Otherwise you’re every bit as bad as the sc~mbag gazzumpers.

Youre singling out gazundering as unethical among all the other tactics employed by sellers.

Lowering your bid at the last minute is the exact same as EAs doing the phantom buyer thing, and raising the price at the last minute. That seems to be the norm in Ireland. Therefore gazundering should be equally as common.

Sellers have been playing hardball with buyers for the last 10 years in Ireland. Now the shoes on the other foot, its the buyers turn to restore some balance to the transaction.