General Election, Ireland 2020 - Free Unicorns, Racism, Brick, Ugly, Housing, Tiocfaidh ár lá, Hearts & Minds, Transfers, Asylum, Hot Waters, Open Borders, Polls... Did someone say IMMIGRATION? :icon_eek:


#264

So a few critical mistakes

  • pulling the cat’s tail on the RIC commemoration. We’re not all shoneens. The FF mayor in Clare who opposed it first will be elected btw
  • FF and FG broadcasting to the entire electorate that voting for SF would mean an entirely different way of running things…d’oh you’re doing their campaigning for them you f**kwits. This is exactly their own message. Of course SF won’t really revolutionize anything.
  • urbanisation and the overall fragmentation and huge immigration into Ireland which FF and FG have overseen is fragmenting their vote and loosening their hold. Ah the irony ! Meanwhile in a homogenous community like Uaghterard which stands up against globalism Noel Grealish gets 4 times the vote of his nearest rival. A message for FF and FG which they’ll be completely blind to !

#265

#266

If anything SF are more woke and pro immigration than FFG. Grealish and Verona did well but the nationist party did woefully. John Waters can go back to not writing for the newspapers. Verona btw is very much pro immigration once its they drive her trucks and are not in the back of them.


#267

They’re certainly more woke but not necessarily more pro migration.

But chickens will come home to roost on migration for SF too in terms of their reunification project. You can’t be both globalist and nationalist. Why should the offspring of migrants care about unification. Migrants from poor nation’s to a mature safe society like Ireland are opportunists generally, theyre not pioneers, theyll not be setting up any institutions or have any loyalty to notions of “an Irish people”. They will participate politics to mostly to protect their interests.


#268

Prediction that SF will return more TDs than FG.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/1226655498625220609

FG actually appear to have recovered somewhat over the last two days. I had suspected that they might do even worse based on their being now somewhat as transfer -repellant as SF once were.

Still likely to be their worst ever performance, from a position of strength when Varadkar took over. Quite simply, referenda that appeal to the floating vote have sweet fa to do with real life beyond the D4 bubble ie wokeness (to include
climate hysteria) is a minority pursuit …something SF would do well to remember

FF/SF coalition looks likely now. Hopefully O’Broin gets the housing portfolio and gets to go all Sean Lemass on the housing market. Bring it on…


#269

It seems in Ireland, any issue that becomes so outrageously emotive and officially-quasi-taboo when approached, is a measure of the programming at play and it’s absolute virulence among thought patterns, more than anything, even the truth of the issue itself.

Well, that didn’t seem to work to stem the rise of SF, did it?

I’m with @ps200306 here. I’m sure if immigration was a burning issue, it would also have been expressed in significant first preference votes for a number of candidates on that platform; its not as if we don’t have a tradition of single issue candidates in our elections, if the demand is there for it.

Perhaps we will care about this topic in large numbers in the future. But a lot of this thread focused on something that voters didn’t care about today, and largely missed the shift in voting intentions.

EDIT: The name of the thread has been reworked I see…


#270

Very good Eamon Dunphy podcast with Patricia McKenna on the “Green Agenda” last week.

She makes a very good point - if the Environment / Climate Change is not a major factor in voting intentions in the election given the considerable media coverage the issue is getting - it’s never going to feature as a major issue. Voters put it at 6%.

She also made the point that the Green Party don’t play well with voters outside of Dublin.


#271

Dunno. There’s no point voting for a no hoper. Like the National Party. They’re incoherent rag bag of losers.

Noel Grelish has polled well!

This election is all about housing, amazing that people aren’t looking at the demand side as well as slagging Eoghan Murphy for not magically building houses overnight


#272

And that seems to be it, isn’t it.


#273

Well the polls and in particular the exit poll generally got it spot on. SF did somehow manage to pick up 8-10% from as recently as last May. This is confounding the panels on RTE. How can people not able to win a council seat last May storm to top the poll in a General Election the following February. It could be clutching at straws for the ‘Nationalist’ groupings that SF ate their lunch with some voters, but there might be something to it.
Remember SF claimed in their manifesto to be firmly against open borders, and casual voters will still associate strong nationalism with Sinn Fein. Rightly or wrongly.


#274

What the manifesto says is even more interesting.

Sinn Féin does not want open borders. We believe that all states must manage migration. Every
state has to have an immigration system with well-functioning rules and regulation that everyone
understands and that serves the interest of the people of the country. This system must have regard
to how many people are needed to meet shortfalls in the labour market and how many people can
be integrated effectively with adequate support and resourcing. Where we do need migrants, such
as to fill vacancies in our health system, our migration system should facilitate this.
The system must also protect people fleeing persecution and war, our international obligations
must be fulfilled. We should end the Direct Provision system, treat people with dignity, process
applications for asylum in a timely manner and implement the recommendations of the All-Party
Oireachtas Committee Report.


#275

Verona Murphy also likely to be elected in Wexford having been dumped by FG.

Also codding yourselves if you think that a significant segment of the core SF vote is not borderline Brexity. Its managed and corralled down certain more acceptable anti establishment channels. However its not far beneath the surface and demand side issues aroubd housing in particukar are likely to bring it more and more to the fore


#276

Like i said Verona is very much pro immigration once its they drive her trucks and are not in the back of them. No doubt she along with the haulage sector were lobbying for more non EU truck drivers. Not much there for anyone who wants to curb immigration. From memory she is not in favour of reducing legal immigration. id say she got some votes on the back of the media attacks on her character and the usual ‘your a racist’ if you speak in any way about immigration that doesn’t fit the liberal media narrative.


#277

Sorry, what do you mean?


#278

That they are Nationalist in outlook, rather than European/Globalist.
Up to 10 years ago, SF policy was to say No to every EU treaty. Then they went mainstream


#279

Well, the manifesto says what it says. Like:

Sinn Féin will also continue to advocate for the establishment of an EU Brexit Relief Fund to compensate
Farmers and SMEs for economic damage caused by Brexit related shocks.

We acknowledge the role that the European Union played in the peace process and the Good Friday
Agreement and we want to see the EU to continue in that role post-Brexit.

The EU through its negotiations on Brexit has
demonstrated concern about the peace process and the future of the Good Friday Agreement. It has
already accepted that, in the event of Unity, the North would automatically become part of the EU.
This European goodwill can be harnessed.

As the detrimental political, economic and social impact of Brexit plays out, the goal of Irish Unity, of the
island of Ireland within the EU, will become increasingly attractive.

Sinn Féin will work at domestic and EU level to oppose these savage
proposed cuts to CAP and instead demand that the Irish Government only support an EU budget
which includes increased CAP provision in real terms.

A Sinn Féin Government will fight for an EU level ban on super trawlers
until that is achieved, we will work towards the strictest possible controls and monitoring of super
trawlers.

And on and on and on…
I don’t see disengagement here.


#280

I wonder will we see some late Animal Farm moments in the next while

  • Mary Lou outright condemning the IRA
  • Eoin O’Broin at the Bildeberg conference :thinking:
  • Dessie Ellis at Davos :open_mouth:

:notes: Armoured cars and tanks and guns came to take away our sons,
But every man must stand behind children who want to identify as a different gender in opposition to their parents wishes :notes:


#281

:roll_eyes:


#282

Along the lines of what Freefallin says above ie

“That they are Nationalist in outlook, rather than European/Globalist.
Up to 10 years ago, SF policy was to say No to every EU treaty. Then they went mainstream”.

Although i was referring more to a significant cohort of their core support rather than their policy/strategy wonks. In many ways a lot of core SF support could be likened to the old Republican wing of Fianna Fail around the time they decided to enter the Dail in 1932…to much the same response from the then establishment of Cumann na nGaedhel ie working class republicans with very little interest in a whole lot beyond the national question. Not necessarily easy bedfellows for Una and co. Sinn Fein means ‘ourselves alone’ after all.

We’re entering into what are likely to be some quite interesting times on these islands.


#283

All the parties are born of murderous pasts, throw a rock, a veritable social Cain & Abel is the Irish Civil war, being the epicentre of modern national tragedy, so horrific it’s been buried, so utterly inhuman like all violent wars, where brother fought against brother, things that were will never fully be known, thus it’s very easy to forget when we do not actually know the full story.

I am reminded of a story I heard once, about an eminent historian who when looking deeper and interviewing a first hand source, many many years ago, when it came to the period of the Civil war, they were met with a simple, "Ah no, we won’t talk about that.", and that was that.

Remind you of anything?

I’d also wager you’ll find that the EU will be very happy with the Irish voting choices in this GE.